To hand child over to someone who can?

[Vengabusiscoming2019]

DD is 5. Life is horrendous with her and I'm a single parent.

Last night she came home from school and would not stop attacking her 3 year old brother. Even when I was sat in the middle of them if he so much as looked at her she was going for him. I had to call my neighbour to come get the 3 year old because I literally couldn't keep him safe from a 5 year old.

I dropped her to school this morning after being vile all morning and she leant in for a kiss and I literally couldn't bring myself to kiss her. I have to pick her up in 3 hours and I genuinely do not want to go. It's relentless and I'm broken.

Who do you call when you get to this point?

I think you're being really unfair on your daughter. Shes reacting this way due to very early trauma/ possible undiagnosed learning disorders.

She hasnt had an easy start and unfortunately that was her major development. It will take a long time to get this resolved and make proper changes.

I understand its difficult on you and this isnt your fault but you need to be kinder to yourself and her.

@Vengabusiscoming2019 I'm glad. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, just to let you know how important you are to her.

You've got plenty of good advice already OP.
You need to be assertively chasing up referrals for support.

Just wanted to add that reward charts are known to be a bad idea for dc who have experienced significant trauma.
They reinforce the feeling of worthlessness and internal shame if they are not successfully completed.

It is very hard to parent either a dc with additional support issues or a dc who has experienced significant trauma. You are trying to do both without any support for your own trauma.
But try to hold onto the idea that your dc chose none of this for herself and has no options but to live with the impact all of this has had on her.
Push hard for support for both of you.

...no one will do anything until its established whether its attachment disorder/PTSD or ASD.

That's really awful. What a nightmare situation for all of you. My daughter has suspected ASD, and used to be very similar with her younger brother. When she was at her worse, she would lash out at him (and us) entirely unprovoked. She once bit his stomach leaving a horrendous bruise (she was 5 or 6, so too old for biting!). We realised that she was likely on the spectrum when she was 4, and started implementing strategies. Things got better, and now (she is 8), she is a lot happier and more settled. We still have moments - she actually bit me recently because she was overwhelmed with happiness - but overall, things have settled down. However, "traditional" parenting strategies (strict boundaries, consequences etc) have always just made her behaviour far worse.

Seeing as ASD is suspected, am assuming that you and the school have are using strategies? The fact that her behaviour has escalated so much after starting school does seem to pinpoint that as the problem. Somewhere along the line her needs are not being met, and she is reacting. I'm sure that you know all of this, but the things we really watch are sensory input (noise, texture etc - does she have a school uniform?), and transitions. My daughter needs warnings and countdowns for any kind of transition - from leaving the house to turning off the TV.

5 is such a difficult age - they can't communicate what is going on inside, but have to deal with so many more expectations - school, friends etc. I agree with PPs who say the school should be doing more - my daughter was offered a place in a "nuture group" which took her out of class for a few hours, several times a week.

OP, I have no real advice but wanted to post as I feel for you. I have a friend who was in the same position as you but 12 years ago, she was in an abusive relationship and her eldest boy struggled so much, he later got a ASD diagnosis. When he was 5 or 6 he had to go into temporary foster care (luckily with a relative) as he tried to harm his baby brother, it was such a hard time for everyone involved but he returned home and things improved.

Have you got any close family or friends that can help? Someone that can take your youngest for a couple hours so you can spend time with your dd?

Both my dd’s have ASD and I find when they get home from school is the worst time, I find setting activities for my youngest to do keeps her busy and distracted until bed time, we used to have a timetable so she knew what she was doing after school (baking, craft, park etc...). She’s now 13 and we have a carer who takes her swimming a couple nights a week after school, this maybe something you could get to help you out (wasn’t easy to get but worth it).

I would be talking to your GP and health visitor and pushing for help, your dd is obviously struggling with her emotions and the things she has seen in the past.

oh OP I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. I've read all your posts and it sounds to me like you are doing everything you can to help your daughter. but it sounds really difficult and no wonder you're feeling the way you do.

I'm not sure exactly of where you are with referrals etc but I think you need to start making some fuss and noise and get some urgent support for you and your dd. it's not acceptable for agencies to leave you in limbo and unsupported simply because you don't yet have a label for your dd's condition. go to your gp, health visitor and get on the phone, weekly or more, to whoever you can who may be able to provide support. be polite but firm and resolved that you're not going away until you have what your dd needs.

you are very strong and have been through lots and survived. you can do this

OP ... you have a lot on your plate. Try to deal with 1 thing at a time.

Firstly, I’d keep dd off school and teach her at home. I’d also contact your HV to start an ASD assessment. You will probably find her behaviour massively improves with the pressures of school removed.

I kept dd in school, didn’t trust my instincts, did things how everyone else was telling me was best. If I could go back I would change EVERYTHING! Dd’s whole school life has been awful to put it mildly - the impact that creates at home is absolutely huge.

You are your dd’s best advocate ... do what is right for her, look after her needs.

You all need help and support in general, but your poor dd is suffering in a way lots don’t understand.

I'd suggest you apply for an Education, Health and Care Plan as soon as possible - the first stage in the process is asking for a needs assessment, and there's information here about how to do it: www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments. If or when they agree, ask them to get language and occupational therapy reports, as it may well be that her behaviour is around stress due to sensory difficulties and problems in communicating. It may be that if she has better support in school she will be less stressed when she comes home; it may be that she needs a more specialist school. You don't have to wait for a diagnosis to get an EHCP.

Also consider asking for a care assessment from social services. It may be that they will be able to offer some support, e.g. in looking after one of the children while you deal with the other, respite care etc. They should do this automatically since she meets the definition of a Child in Need because of her disability.

So sorry to read this, it sounds like you're in such a difficult place. Definitely consider counselling either privately or through NHS. Don't keep it all bottled up - talk about it!

It sounds like I experienced with my dd, still do though rarely (she's 20) she lashes out at her sister and I've been close to calling 999. The difference is that until quite recently there were 2 parents (another story) and she was petite so even now I can pick her up. I have had so many bruises. There's techniques that I use to prevent situations from occurring and ways to diffuse the situation but ultimately it is just the way they are and school stress was the primary catalyst. My dd is went on medication which has helped a lot though not until she was 11. Call and get help, the understanding autism course was good and we switched schools which helped

Just a thought - how's her sleeping?

Something like 95% of kids who are diagnosed with the likes of ADHD etc are actually sleep deprived - breathing through their mouth at night.

PLEASE check this. My son's behaviour improved 200% for having his tonsils and adenoids removed.

sending you a hug.

Honestly. The therapeutic parenting group on Facebook will really help!

She is violent in the mornings and immediately after school
She was witness to domestic violence and you are sending her away from her safety (you) which is extremely distressing for her - that would be a likely cause for her kicking off.
Then she's angry when she gets back because you didn't need her, you sent her away (to school).
Just a thought/possibility.
I'm not sure of ASD but possibly PSTD.

op it's so hard doing it on your own, I've got a partner and we have a DD who is being assessed and we barely cope at times and there are two of us, I can't imagine how hellish it would be to have a younger child and be on my own. You need to kick up more of a stink with the agencies letting you down.

If they can't help you more, think about cutting back the school hours, she's obviously NOT FINE in school or you wouldn't be getting that backlash at home. It really grinds my gears that you can get support if they lash out at school, but if it is all at home the help is so much harder to find.

@Devereux1

what's your comment on the strict routine coming from, i.e. research, books, professional background? I'm wondering about this question but I'm not sure this is true for kids with ASD/OCD/severe anxiety disorders - you can push them and you can end up sending them on such a long distressing anxiety arc it doesn't work. I agree that pushing their routines/rituals for milder cases works but I'm not convinced on the validity of this approach for kids under assessment for various issues.

I can really recommend ordering a copy of "Nurturing Attachments" by Kim Golding. Not the whole solution but for while you are waiting for help. She sounds like a really complex little girl. It could be ASD, it could be the trauma she experienced - perhaps a mixture of both. Ultimately the label doesn't really matter and it's a real shame help is being withheld until a specific 'cause' is found. There are core things that can be done now regardless of the reasons behind her behaviours.

Nurturing Attachments should help you understand some parts of her and give some ideas for how things could be managed differently. It might have a kindle edition you could download straight to your phone with the free kindle app.

Definitely step away from punishments, time out, reward charts for now. They're not really good for any children but likely to be particularly ineffective for her.

Also have a look at the Secure Base model here. Lots of the foundations described will have been really eroded due to the severe abuse she witnessed (was he physical to her too?).

At the same time reach out to your GP. Be clear. If they are not going to refer her for therapeutic support due to question marks around ASD, then the ASD assessment needs to be happening now.

Really feel for you. Must feel absolutely awful to reach that point

My heart is aching for you all. You are obviously very broken and unhappy at the moment - and my first thought was that your child had suffered some abuse of some sort, which your update made clear.

I think she's frightened and is attacking her brother because she fears losing you and your love. She has lost her dad because of his horrible behaviour, but that doesn't mean that she didn't love him and want him to love her - she's only tiny, and doesn't understand relationships (do any of us?).

Can I ask - are you able to spend 1-to-1 time with your DS during the day while your DD is at school, and carve out a little bit of special "mammy and daughter" time for her later in the evening - put her brother to bed early, perhaps.

This is so hard for all of you. You are stressed and exhausted, and want to protect your son; your DS will be desperately wanting his sister's company, but will be frightened of her; and your DD is so full of angry, mixed-up emotions she doesn't know what she is doing.

She is lashing out because she is afraid, I think, but of course her behaviour makes her harder to love. Please remember that the children who reject love the most are almost always the ones who desperately need it.

You and your child need professional help, and you need time to build up your own emotional reserves which are obviously very low. There will be people on here who can suggest practical things you can do - I can just offer a hand-hold, but I am holding you all in my heart.

This sounds so difficult for you OP.

It does sound like last night was a completely new level of stress for her (and I fully understand why you didn't want a kiss)

The only thing that crossed my mind, if she clearly works better in calm well established routines, has the school gone into full blown Christmas mode now we've hit December. There will be do many different things to process, nativity responsibilities, other kids getting more excited. Normal routines go out the window this must be quite stressful for her if that is the case.

Good luck

@treepolitics Medical/MH practitioners in the family, research that was and is shared around a professional group I am part of. What I wrote goes without saying for nearly all neurotypical children, but it has apparently been found that, contrary to the advice of 'going with their expressed needs', and most of the replies here, not satisfying the unhelpful needs or behaviours of non-neurotypical is also highly effective too.

CoastalWave did you get it sorted privately or on the NHS if you don't mind me asking.

This is one of the most horrifying threads I've read for a while.

Was your DD abused directly? Or was she witness to your abuse? Or both?

Please contact your health visitor and GP as soon as possible. There's also a charity called Home Start who may be of some help to you.

If you feel overwhelmed please don't contact your abuser as you previously stated. It would be within your child's best interests that in that instance for you to contact social services.