To hand child over to someone who can?

[Vengabusiscoming2019]

DD is 5. Life is horrendous with her and I'm a single parent.

Last night she came home from school and would not stop attacking her 3 year old brother. Even when I was sat in the middle of them if he so much as looked at her she was going for him. I had to call my neighbour to come get the 3 year old because I literally couldn't keep him safe from a 5 year old.

I dropped her to school this morning after being vile all morning and she leant in for a kiss and I literally couldn't bring myself to kiss her. I have to pick her up in 3 hours and I genuinely do not want to go. It's relentless and I'm broken.

Who do you call when you get to this point?

Don’t have much more to offer that pp haven’t said. Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and some

I’m sorry you’re going through this and hope it gets better soon. Go easy on yourself. It’s a long, hard road to recovery from dv and you need to let yourself heal too.

No good advise OP but I'm so sorry you're going through what you are. I hope you can get the help for all of your sakes

Hiya. This sounds really hard. Isn't it scary when they won't listen and you are thinking omg I'm the parent and have no control. Not anywhere near this bad but my 4.5 year old can be a terror sometimes and won't listen.

First of all you need some help.
Secondly remember this will not last forever. Perhaps contact a health visitor and get them to come see you. Maybe they can give you some advice.

I'm sure you have done all the things but have you tried a behaviour chart for the week with a reward on Saturday. I have to do this sometimes as my DD can loose control and forget to think and listen.

It must be so scary for you right now. Did her sibling coming along rock her world upside down? We've had alot of teething problems. My DD seems very anxious about loosing me. She loves her brother but if I go near other kids she looses her mind and will say horrible things. It all comes down to her wanting to feel close to me and like she's my number one.

It must be really hard being a single mum. Do you have chance to read stories and snuggle up at bedtime? Does she like praise and you telling her she's your special little girl? I also went through a stage where her behaviour upset me and sometimes I was finding it hard to be nice like you have said. She would move on and I'd be still upset.

What's the teachers opinion on her? Ok S there anything they can do to support you. Like a chart etc? Have they got a support worker that could talk to her about being good and being super kind?

Do school realise how things are with her behaviour? Have you had a meeting (eg teacher, head and LA) to see what additional help and support there is for you?

I’m sorry you are struggling with this.

Have you spoken to her teacher?

Even when I was sat in the middle of them if he so much as looked at her she was going for him.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Why was your 5 year old allowed to remain in the room and continue to threaten and distress your 3 year old?

I'm not an emotional person naturally (have been called cold many times) but i literally want to cry for you both.

Please seek some professional help for both of you.

And i agree with the PP.. i would try an love bomb her. I know it will be hard esp with her awful behaviour but she sounds like she could be traumatised and doesnt know how to like emotions out in a healthy way.

If she is not sleeping properly at the moment could you send your boy to bed and just sit on the sofa with her holding her or doing an activity like a puzzle or some drawing?

I'm so sorry you have both has to go through this

It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation and both you and your daughter are clearly still suffering the emotional fall out. I do hope you're able to access some professional help - sounds like there are some good suggestions from PP. Sending a hand hold.

I would say that she is not coping with school - which is why you are getting this behaviour before or after school. It has a term....after school restraint collapse. It is common in children with learning difficulties.
I would be talking to GP, school, CAMHS - anyone you can get to listen and help. There are also very specific ASD charities (I know she is not diagnosed- but are often staffed by people who have had very similar experiences of behaviour).
Please please do not get back in touch with you ex....

So your poor young daughter wanted a kiss and you couldn't give it to her? I think here lies half the problem.

You complain how you can't sit and cuddle your son but not once mentioned doing the same with DD. She spent the first few years of her life in a home with DV happening around her and now you are pulling away from her emotionally. She is being taught that this is the normal way to behave.

Go and get help before the damage to your child is irreversible

Why was your 5 year old allowed to remain in the room and continue to threaten and distress your 3 year old?

If you have a troubled child, putting them in another room for a short while isn't going to solve the problem. If you have a troubled child, you can't keep them permanently alone in another room because that would be child abuse (and would make them much, much worse).

This is a child who has been seriously damaged by early childhood trauma. It is not the OPs fault in any way, but that doesn't take the damage away and she isn't going to be able to discipline the damage away either, any more than you could discipline away a physical injury with longterm effects. Treatment is needed, along with some expert advice to the OP on how she can help both dc in their everyday life. There are people out there who know about these situations.

I grew up with a younger sibling who was also traumatised, though to a far lesser extent. Fortunately being the youngest of the family meant he was not a safety risk to anyone, and there being two engaged hands-on parents without traumas of their own made it far easier to meet everybody's needs. The OP is carrying a heavy burden here. Love-bombing is almost certainly the way to go (worked for us), but it is going to be hard work.

@EstrellaGalicia abit harsh. It's also important she gets a balance and yes hugs her etc.... But she obviously won't want to hug her after she's walloped her brother. She will not want to send out the wrong message. She also will be wanting to protect her little one from being hurt.

I do think they need help to manage this and make a plan. It's important the little girl gets a hug and a kiss but not after hurting her brother.

If possible is a friend able to take your little one for an hour so you can make some cornflake cakes or something or a puzzle or whatever she likes. Abit of one on one time is probably needed too

* Vengabusiscoming2019*

My DD is 5 and doesn't know my name. When you ask her what my name is she says "DD's mummy".

It's so frustrating but no matter how often she a hears my name she doesn't get it.

I remember you from the above thread that you started last week. I remember the thread because I remember thinking how harsh it was of you to be pissed off at your young child for such a trivial and completely expected behaviour.

I am not “having a go” at you. I really sympathise. My point is - you do seem very down on your daughter. However given her age - there is so much hope to turn it around. You need external support though and you need to go hell to leather to secure it ASAP

Its the first time I've ever not given her the kiss back but we had had such a horrendous morning and I was trying not to have a breakdown.

The school are aware, she is going in 30 minutes late and leaves 30 minutes early because she can't handle the crowds. They see her lashing out at me. They see it starting before we have even left the office sometimes. They recognise that she has unhealthy relations with adults and they did say that they feel she is just about holding it together in school so no concerns there.

We are in the process of arranging a TAF but seeing as I first contacted them on the 3rd of October and its now 4th December its dragging and meanwhile I'm coping less and less by the day.

We had had a lovely summer holidays so I know its school that has triggered this awful spiral but no one will do anything until its established whether its attachment disorder/PTSD or ASD.

Little one goes to preschool, she drops him off with me so knows he isn't getting to stay. She obviously doesn't get left to just hurt him and she gets removed and punished BUT short of putting a lock on her door its hard to physically keep her in there. Reward charts cause more anxiety than help.

SHe gets 95% of my time and attention, its the little one who is attention starved :(

She also gets nightly one on one time. Brother goes to bed 6pm and then we have an hour of colouring/sharing stories etc together so she is getting quality time every single day

I was bullied and physically attacked by my older brother from when I was 2 until about 17.
My parents dismissed it as brothers and sisters fighting and thought it was completely normal.
He’s never changed and we have no contact now and haven’t for years.
Maybe he had ASD or a condition that wasn’t widely diagnosed 25 years ago, but my feeling is that if he had have been, he would have been even worse because he would have an ‘excuse’.
ASD people are not insane and unable to control their actions and they do know right from wrong.
Some people are just nasty, vicious bullies and always will be. The amount of posters on here that complain about their child being bullied, but no one ever admits their child is the bully. Or if they do they have a million excuses.
I am sorry, but I don’t think witnessing DV is a particularly valid excuse either. It was really common years ago and most kids just wanted to protect their little brothers and sisters if anything!

You must prioritise your son and do whatever is necessary to make your daughter behave.

That's a bit poor they won't address trauma until they've ruled out ASD.

I understand the routines and rigidity. I've lived through similar. The routines that almost become ritualised nearly broke me.

We are much further along now. I can observe that high anxiety pushes rigidity and routines into an almost ritual behaviour. I strongly suspect she's feeling her world is completely out of her control and this is what's driving her anxiety, her desire to regain some control.

Are they questioning attachment disorder alongside? This is usually looked into as it can present in a similar way to ASD and can occur with DV.

A friend of mine works with families who's children have attachment disorders. She said something to me the other day that spoke volumes.

It's not hard to treat an attachment disorder (and others too). You as her main caregiver are encouraged to form a special bond.
She needs to know you are there for her no matter what.

Every day the aim is to make a positive connection. It can be just one. One act of kindness between you, one moment that the two of you connect. It can be though a game, a treat, a hug, watching a movie, baking together, kind words, reading a book, tucking her into bed, washing her hair.
I know with her current behaviour this is the farthest thing you'll want to do, but this therapy works for all children in all circumstances. It's building positive bonds, so when she feels vulnerable and can't express herself except through anger she will have more to protect her, more to draw upon, she will feel more secure.

You are her significant care giver, you are the one that loves her, she needs this from you, and I truly understand how hard this is.

Have you received support yourself? If you were in a DV situation only a few years ago have you had extended counselling and support?

There are agencies funded by your LA that can help.
Try googling Family Partnership and your LA.
There is also Home start that should be able to help, they have very experienced therapists, and Wonans Aid too.

You need support for you so you can support her. This will work out, but you need some help to get through.

@Ohdearme81 to be fair my irrational frustration over that stems from The fact she bolts when we are out and then when someone finds her she can't tell them my name or anything useful. It's so frustrating knowing your child is even more vulnerable than most and that something that should be simple isn't

You need to adapt to your daughter. Get professional help.

But still - the biggest thing you can get into your head if you can - you changing will have the biggest impact. You need to change first. You seem to be expecting your DD to change. Won’t happen until you change first.

I have two extremely challenging children and by adapting to THEM, not expecting them to adapt to me, their behaviour is good now and more importantly it’s so much nicer for all of us. However even other professionals haven’t got my kids and can set them off.

So... what triggers your DD?
Remove those triggers.

Does she like routine?
Give her routine.

Does she not always respond well?
Let her be and be patient.

Give her something to look forward to after school and before.

Get a visual schedule of what happens after and before school and put the treat at the end when she’s completed it.

My sense is you are expecting too much from your DD. She can’t cope. She’s telling you through meltdowns.

You need to expect less from her in terms of coping. So make her life very calm. Never get angry yourself. Make her life predictable. Make it routine.

Get help.

I think you just need to keep going. Keep asking for help wherever you can get it. Keep firm and consistant and breathe! I know this is absolutely hard for you. I hope the Christmas break sees an improvement.

I think children at this age are so tired and worn out at school. We start them too young in the UK. Alot of people feel the same way. There's not enough adult to go around these 4/5 year olds especially.

The reason she will be lashing out at home is you are her safe place. I'm not surprised you are struggling. It's hard trying to get a balance with two children who require your time, love and support in different ways.

What happens if you tip loads of blocks out and get them to build? What if you ask her which film she'd like to watch after school? Have you asked her what she likes for tea and let her choose that? Just wondering if a little bit more control over her own life will make her relax. Would it work if you put her favourite chocolate in a jar she can't open and say if you are kind to your brother the jar will unlock after he's gone to bed and you can have your treat?

Sorry if these are all useless ideas. I'm trying to help you. Xx

I have a friend who had a biological child and then an adopted child (adopted at age 7). There was always talk of ASD, but similarly, nobody could agree and give a final diagnosis. The adopted child was violent and rude and hit, followed incessantly, broke the toys/things of the biological child.

She would never remove the abusive child from the situation, always taking the view that he was 'damaged' and 'just needed more love'. Meanwhile the biological child became more and more frightened and isolated.

The parents always made excuses for the adopted child. The biological child ended up a nervous wreck with multiple problems of their own and a real fear of the other child, which now continue into adulthood. The adopted child's behaviour then transferred to adults as he got older, and everyone in that family tries to avoid him.

Do you have a local children's centre (formerly Sure Start centres) near you? They have family support workers who can help you if you contact them or better still, if you can, go and knock on their door today and ask for support. You can also ask your GP or HV to refer you to an Early Intervention team. You need support and they are here to help you.

Oh and get a play pen for the two year old and put him in there and stay in the same room until you get this under control.

Your life can be different. And so can your kids. Both of them. You can protect both. Very good posts from a lot of people here.

Rather than starting school 30 mins late and leaving 30 mins early, can she just do half days for a while to try to gradually adjust her into it and then for the remaining half day the two of you do something she enjoys together?

This is a child who has been seriously damaged by early childhood trauma. It is not the OPs fault in any way, but that doesn't take the damage away and she isn't going to be able to discipline the damage away either, any more than you could discipline away a physical injury with longterm effects.

Sensible post, cory. This is very clearly not just a case of a child misbehaving.

I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with all of this, OP. Are you getting support to help you deal with the aftermath of the abuse? I agree that you need professional help. You can do this, but you don't have to do it on your own.