AIBU to think that if a man can simply self-ID as a woman....

[Oakenbeach]

.... then there’s no reason he shouldn’t also be able to self-ID as a Native American, a quadriplegic, a child or even a badger, if that’s how “he” feels in “him”self?

Or am I missing something?

[nannybeach]

I see "Always" sanitary products have removed the symbol for "Female" fand Males who identify as women can have a smear test although they have no cervix

[Devereux1]

I see "Always" sanitary products have removed the symbol for "Female" fand Males who identify as women can have a smear test although they have no cervix

Perhaps Always sanitary pads should have emergency landing information on them in case they are purchased by people self identifying as airline pilots wanting to use them to fly.

[LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses]

I saw a tweet saying that now the transgender thing was more or less sorted out they needed to work on transracial issues. I can't tell any more who is being serious and who is taking the piss.

Also read somewhere that being a woman is living like a woman and they described it as like a job description. I don't even know where to start with that. Nobody ever gave me a job description for being a woman, and I assume I'd fail dismally at it as it probably includes make up and crap like that.

[Coatandhat]

@BovaryX That Spectator article makes me feel sick. It reminds me of something I heard about paedophiles advising each other on how to separate children from their parents. Why should they get away with hiding this from view?

[BovaryX]

That Spectator article makes me feel sick ...Why should they get away with hiding this from view?

I agree. The reason this lobby group are hiding the fact they want to dislocate children from their parents is because there would be outrage if people knew about it. But most people don’t because they are doing it in a furtive, secretive manner. The more people find out about this, the better. Here’s the link for anyone who hasn’t seen it. It’s quite eye opening

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

[HandsOffMyRights]

I can't access that Bovary
but I have a feeling it will be chilling, like this 'we're still here' thread, which talks about schools and accessing children:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

'I identify as' - swap it for 'I pretend/claim to be' that shines sunlight on the phrase.

[HandsOffMyRights]

A pp mentioned The Greens and Lib Debs upthtead. I think you'd better warch this.
I don't identify as being concerned. I am deeply concerned!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3760443-Sonia-Poulton-Doc-Aimee-and-Greens-LibDems

[BovaryX]

HandsOff,
You should be able to access it because I don’t think it’s behind a firewall. It’s called ‘The document that reveals the remarkable tactics of the trans lobby’ and it’s by James Kirkup. It’s quite chilling. It describes how this aggressive lobby group promot their agenda by manipulating government agencies, targeting youth groups and using specious accusations of ‘hate speech’ to silence dissent. Avoiding public and media scrutiny is a deliberate tactic and this is why so many people don’t know what’s going on


blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

[HandsOffMyRights]

Dems they don't self ID as Deb yet, but who knows?

[HandsOffMyRights]

Thanks Bovary
It's as disturbing as I suspected.

The public is still playing catch up on this while many dangerous people are established in positions of power, pushing an agenda.

When we were campaigning around the GRA, most unsuspecting members of the public did not have a clue and didn't realise that 80-95 percent of the men under Stonewall's transgender definition retained their male genitalia.

They also thought a transwoman was a natal woman who believed they were a man - because of the word 'woman'.

We can only hold on to James' final words:

'no policy made in the shadows can survive in sunlight.'

[BovaryX]

They also thought a transwoman was a natal woman who believed they were a man - because of the word 'woman’

The manipulation of deliberately deceptive language is straight out of Newspeak......

[GumboDrop]

At last, I have found my people.

I feel very strongly that if we, as a society, accept self ID for gender then we have to also accept it for other things, such as ethnicity e.g. Rachel Dozeal. But the trans community don't like that because it emphasises just how fucking crazy the entire concept of self ID really is.

However, in these enlightened times, I too choose to self ID as a cat. Who wouldn't?!?

[BovaryX]

I feel very strongly that if we, as a society, accept self ID for gender then we have to also accept it for other things, such as ethnicity e.g. Rachel Dozeal

Gumbo, precisely. Check out the feminist chat board if you are interested in this, I found it recently and there are some interesting discussions.......

[emilybrontescorsett]

Yes i'd like to self id as a cat.
Feel like lounging around and so what if I want to piss in your garden.

[GumboDrop]

I've never ventured into the feminist board. I'm perfectly happy to respect someone's choice to live as a woman/man; I'll use their preferred pronouns etc but the world has gone crazy with pandering to a vocal minority. Choosing which loo to use doesn't bother me but I can understand that it might bother others. However, it is not ok for a biological male to compete in women's sports event, and chopping your willy off does not make you a 'real' women.

Maybe I'll wander into the feminist board...

[ShatnersWig]

I have occasionally, on MN, self identified as a mammoth. I have amended my user name to reflect this when the mood takes me. It's arrant nonsense and as a man I stand with all those women who are very concerned about the implications all this has on female safe spaces.

[GumboDrop]

Deveruex - I think it's a mental health issue too. Surely a severe form of body dismorphia? I said that to a friend who is a MH nurse and she disagreed though...

[BovaryX]

Maybe I'll wander into the feminist board...

It can seem a initially a bit intimidating but there is lots of interesting information on there. There’s great coverage of the number of people being sacked, hounded and bullied for expressing a belief in biological sex. The Maya Forstater case, Harry Miller and Dr. Louise Moody. It’s quite shocking. Freedom of speech is under sustained attack....

[GumboDrop]

Yeah, I don't dare speak of this in real life.

[HandsOffMyRights]

Gumbo I second heading over to the feminist board.

My cat also enjoys the debate and humour as she sits on my lap. She wasn't fooled by the dog who identified as a cat though...

[BovaryX]

Yeah, I don't dare speak of this in real life.

You know Gumbo, that’s actually an indictment of the authoritarian time in which we live. The war against freedom of speech and freedom of thought is relentless

[Devereux1]

Deveruex - I think it's a mental health issue too. Surely a severe form of body dismorphia? I said that to a friend who is a MH nurse and she disagreed though...

I should have also added mental condition, which is what gender dysphoria actually is. Even the MH community are in total agreement about this.

I'd be interested to hear what your MH nurse friend thought it was?

[Dolorabelle]

Self-ID, in the jurisdictions in which it applies, is a legal process in which one makes a truthful declaration and is subject to legal governance like other similar declarations. There are legal sanctions for making a false declaration

However, in the UK there is no legal self-id for sex. So any man who wants access to things reserved for women because they are structurally oppressed and discriminated against cannot simply say he's a woman.

Most people don't realise that 80% of men who say they're women don't have genital reassignment surgery (GRS). And that includes men who have legally changed their gender (not their sex) through the attainment of of a Gender Reassignment Certificate (GRC) which sets up the legal fiction that they are women, in certain circumstances (bit importantly not all).

As a friend of mine said, "If they want us to accept them as women, they at least need to make the commitment to have their bollocks cut off."



I am opposed to self-identification for the simple reason that it fundamentally changes the basic definition of what it is to be female without asking women. There has been virtually NO consultation with women, no consideration of women's interests in the push in the UK for self-id, and the bullying of women who raise questions about the negative impact on women as a sex class (overall category) and as individuals, of self-identification as women by men. Women who've raised reasonable questions about the impact of self-id on women have been disciplined at work, lost jobs, been silenced and censored, and verbally & physically attacked.

So thanks for gthe most anti-woman post today, Booboostwo

[nannybeach]

Is come to public attention that a lot of children saying they were in wrong sex body are autistic. The amount of people who have trans then changed their minds have been buried. I got berated by someone famous, told I was gay bashing, because I said that feeling you were in the wrong body was a mental issue, thats its your brain telling you this, and one day, a way would be found to be feeling OK with the body you actually have, I never mentioned being gay. One of my DD friends went through what we call the tomboy stage, cut her hair off, only played with and dressed like the boys, it last a few years, then she was the most girly girl.