AIBU to request no male midwife

[Hellofromtheotherside2020]

I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but I am due to give birth soon and at the hospital where I'm planning on giving birth, there are a few male midwives employed.

I think it's great that there are male midwives. It really must take a special kind of man to want to do that job and I expect they're very professional and amazing in their roles.

I know many women who've said that having a male midwife was better than a female etc etc as they were more sympathetic.

But for some reason, which I can't explain as I don't know why, I just feel so uncomfortable at the thought of having a male deliver my baby. It's not a sexual thing. I don't think a man will look at my vagina and get turned on or anything like that. I know they see plenty every day. I would feel uncomfortable, vulnerable, exposed and embarrassed if there was a man present (other than DH).

I know people will say "when you're in labour you won't care who's in the room", but I will care. I've given birth three times before and I did care then. I enjoyed my previous births and I was comfortable being surrounded by lovely women caregivers. I felt very feminine and powerful. I didn't care if the female caregiver had given birth herself or not, so it's not even a case of feeling the male midwife wouldn't have empathy or anything like that, which is what my friend suggested.

Am I the only person who feels like this?
How can I articulate my request to the hospital in my birth plan without sounding like a sexist pig? I feel so bad feeling his way as I know they're great at their jobs. I just know for sure I'd be so uncomfortable in my primal self giving birth and likely pooping myself in front of another man.

I'm the same with GPs and even dentists too, I just feel more comfortable under the care of another woman. What's wrong with me? Come to think of it, any make who is in a position of power/authority to me (eg senior colleagues) I always feel so vulnerable and inferior. Why?!!!! Help!

I think goats and monkeys have eaten all the cheese. ...

People, please take the time to at least read OP’s posts.

OP, I too live in Australia. My dentist of choice is a woman as she listens to her patients..

You absolutely should be able to state your preference for a female HCP. I echo others here who say IT IS YOUR CHOICE. The posters who are calling you sexist show their deeply ingrained misogyny. How anyone can say “suck it up” is beyond belief.

Best wishes for a safe and trauma free delivery.

zebras

No one can take away from you the trauma you experienced with those female midwives. No one. Sadly, it should not have happened and if I remember, you are a hcp yourself so you also know that there are good and bad of either sex.

Please understand that the OP is not arguing that patients be treated only by female hcp and that if you don’t have a preference and a male is available, that this is not ok.

She is opting to use her rightful choice to request female hcp fully knowing that there maybe one who is inadequate. Why? It doesn’t matter, really it doesn’t. If during a labour that may last across two or three shifts she, or any woman, wants to feel calmer and less stressed because she is not being triggered by previous trauma or just because they are uncomfortable they most definitely should use this right. I hope you can see this is not negating or minimizing your experience at all.

And sorry zebra that you had a traumatic time at the hands of female staff. But you know what, I'd be more comfortable with a female being rude and dismissive to me (who I know I'd be confident enough to voice my feelings to) than a male...even the nicest male, who I would never ever be comfortable with.

Sorry, op, but until you've experienced it I don't think you can say you would feel better about it or would be able to stick up for yourself. I couldn't. It affected me seriously for years after. In fact, after the birth of my first child it took me 5 years to consider doing it again. The experiences caused depression and anxiety. Being held down while someone tries to break your waters when the cervix is closed was agony. Having a catheter inflated in the urethra rather than the bladder and then left there for an hour was agony. Having the midwife telling me off at various points for making a fuss affected my mental health for a long time afterwards. So, I don't think you can say that you would be able to voice your feelings unless you've been in that situation. You say your previous labours have been straightforward and positive experiences - that's great but many of us have had really bad and damaging experiences at the hands of female midwives. I wish you would not be so dismissive of those experiences.

agrona - thank you! I also spoke with the midwife today and she said that I'm not the first and won't be the last to make this request. She also said she fully understood my preference and didn't even require me to give any reason or justification for my decision. Thankfully it's woman like her giving care and not some of the ones who've commented on here previously who think it's acceptable to belittle and bully someone who feels differently to them.

In an emergency situation nobody gives a shit who is delivering the baby. I have been in that situation, a male consultant delivered my first born and I really didn’t care- I just wanted him out safe.

You can request female only midwives, I reckon in some religions in particular this would be expected.

Suck it up" - again, this is an expectation that women will dissociate if that's what it takes to get through birth. That's not good medical care. That's how women end up with birth related trauma that can take years to recover from. If you don't care about them (and it's obvious that you don't) how great do you think that is for their child, to have their mother in that situation while she's trying to take care of them?

Yes it is. And that's what I was told - suck it up, your baby is the priority. The fact that it was women treating me like this appears to be fine and dandy though, despite the fact that it did cause me birth trauma for years but no one wants to hear about that do they, because it was caused by women who never should have been allowed to do that job.

Zebra - but it's perfectly okay for you to be dismissive of mine? Plus I was never dismissive of your point anyway. You said you had bad experiences with female midwives, I said sorry about that but I would still prefer a shitty female midwife over a male. How is that at all dismissive of your experience?

Again, sorry for your experience. When I went into labour with my third, the midwife took one look at me and said "go home you're not in labour", I said then (this was ten years ago, so I'm even more confident now) that I'm not prepared to have her as my midwife. I was immediately assigned someone else (a beautiful lovely student midwife) and the rest was positive.

I know 100% I would feel confident raising any matters or concerns with a female midwife and wouldn't allow myself to be bullied into something. I'm too old and too long in the tooth to put up with that.

Nobody here has said that, hooves. If the HCPs who treated you left you feeling like that then they should be sacked.

What makes it even harder for me now is that you are seen as odd if you don't want a woman gynaecologist or a female nurse as a chaperone. I do just have to suck that up because it is fine, it seems, to say you don't want a male Dr but not ok to say you don't want a female Dr or nurse.

I still have flashbacks to particularly my 2nd birth whenever I am examined by a female HCP, yet that is totally dismissed by people. If I'd had the same treatment at the hands of a male Dr then everyone would be understanding and would encourage me to refuse to be seen by male hcps going forward but because they were women I am expected to suck it up and accept female hcps in the future.

Yanbu! I have had two children both managed care, first was an em section and i got away with no males giving me an intimate examination which i am so relieved about. Closest I came was one male nurse in theatre who stayed at the top end with me. Everyone else was female.

I recently had to go for an ultra sound and knew it was likely to need to be vaginal. I was mortified to get there and find it was a man. He tried normally then said he would need to be vaginally - i asked for a woman and was told none available so I'm currently waiting for a new appointment- its bern more than two weeks now. I don't think i waited this long to receive the date for the first one.

And zebra, nobody has told you that the female midwives who caused your traumatic birth experience is OK. I haven't addressed it much as it isn't really relevant to the post.

It was not OK for them to treat you like that. I hope you complained. No, they shouldn't be doing that job. A male can do exactly what they did though too. But I've read the thread since you joined twice now to see where anyone has said "it's all fine and dandy they treated you like this", and nobody has even said anything remotely along those lines. So I'm slightly flabbergasted how you came to that conclusion?

I know 100% I would feel confident raising any matters or concerns with a female midwife and wouldn't allow myself to be bullied into something. I'm too old and too long in the tooth to put up with that.

Oh, so it's my fault that it happened to me is it? I allowed it to happen?

And I haven't been dismissive at a of you wanting a female midwife. I've barely addressed that at all. My posts have been about my births and about men being able to choose certain hcps.

You have been dismissive of me - basically saying that you would rather have a shitty female nurse than a great male one. Well, wait until you're treated how I was and then maybe tell me how you feel. Lying flat out, legs in stirrups with 2 people holding you down doesn't exactly do much for your assertiveness.

I work in an outpatient department that is staffed mostly by women. We get male and female patients, but sometimes female patients will request female staff only. We do our bed to accommodate this request but do explain it isn't always possible with staffing pressures (normally a team of 3 staff members see patient, it would be very unusual for all 3 to be male). Most staff don't mind but I have heard a male staff say he finds it a bit offensive, as it suggests he is less capable at his job than female staff. Also points out that same patients are usually seen by a male doctor. In OPs case she has even gone so far as to find a place with only female doctors so I would say YANBU as it clearly feeling exposed around men even in the medical profession is cause of anxiety for you, but YABU to stereotype males in such a way you would feel more vulnerable around them, as generally they are just wanting to do their job. Your feelings are unlikely to change soon enough so I think stick with your no men request for this.

And where has anyone said that a woman should be made to feel 'wrong' for NOT wanting a female care giver?? Zebra, what did you eat for breakfast?!

And actually zebra, I had the issue where my pelvis did not open and that breaking of waters procedure sounds all to familiar. The trauma I felt, sadly the worst was at the hands (literally) of a male hcp, left me unwilling to contemplate a second child. I cannot imagine going through a second traumatic birth, but you certainly have my sympathy. And again, I hope you realize that no one is trying to minimize your trauma at all.

I think the callous "suck it up" attitudes that some are displaying here is a big part of the reason why HCPs with the bedside manner of a poorly socialized wolverine and poor technical skills get away with being so bad at their jobs (making the patient feels as comfortable as they can is meant to be part of the job). When that's the expectation, that patients will just stoically accept both unneeded pain and cruelty, have their distress handwaved away in the moment as them just making a fuss, you end up with a culture in which women are habitually treated as if they're an inconvenience that's getting in the way of the medical staff delivering their baby and it would be great if they'd be quiet and let the staff get on with it. That's the culture my mother described when she gave birth to me, and it's awful. That's been the most distressing thing about this thread, how many people there are who not only accept that as OK, they try to shame and silence anyone who says that it's not and that patients deserve better.

zebra I'm not even going there... I hope you find peace with your traumatic experience.

The fear of abuse thing isn't where my support for the right to choose comes from. I just support bodily autonomy for all

We live in a society with lots of rules that govern what we are and what we are not allowed to do. I believe in personal freedom and bodily autonomy should be one of the things that's really ours to control and to decide for. You should be free to decide who has access to it.

With regards my own intimate medical care i don't have a preference but i understand that no one else is me, and that whatever anyone else decides, and for whatever reason, it doesn't affect me in any way

And yeah it was a derail but the prostate convo has got me thinking i will go and get mine checked so thank you to pp who shared that story

Easyandy that pretty much articulates my outlook. I don't think I'd be abused, I said that countless times and it's not to do with anything else much other than what I am personally comfortable with. You wrote that so well. Go get that prostate checked :)

With regards my own intimate medical care i don't have a preference but i understand that no one else is me, and that whatever anyone else decides, and for whatever reason, it doesn't affect me in any way
That's how I feel too.

Personally in most situations (not thinking of abuse survivors here for example), I find it hard to get my head around the idea of not wanting a perfectly qualified and pleasant male HCP in a hospital setting, but can understand 1-1 or home visits feeling more awkward and something someone may want to turn down.

I also find it hard to hear that people would turn down male midwives and nurses, but have no issue with male obstetricians etc. To me that's illogical and I do wonder, perhaps unfairly, if that's because some roles involving caring are still viewed as women's roles

However, as someone who supports bodily autonomy and the right of men and women to request same sex intimate care then ultimately my personal opinion doesn't come into it. They absolutely should have the right to request.

I've read the whole thread and have been absolutely gobsmacked with the some of the callous responses.

We all do have the right to decide who gets to touch us and perform intimate and non intimate procedures on us. Yes in some cases we may have to wait longer, however, surely the patient's right to body autonomy etc trump's the medical practitioner each and every time.

Being told you are sexist and a bigot because you don't consent is ludicrous. Comparing sex to race is ridiculous and the repeat posters that use that comparison should feel ashamed. Also stop conflating sex with bloody gender, male and female are sexes.

As women we are raised to not make a fuss, to be nice and submit. Well tough none of us can consent for another adult. You may feel happy with a male HCP but others do not and should not be shamed for it.

I hope the OP has a safe delivery and has the support from all female staff as is her right.

Most staff don't mind but I have heard a male staff say he finds it a bit offensive, as it suggests he is less capable at his job than female staff.

And that’s exactly the kind of men that should be nowhere near a woman as she gives birth or has any other intimate treatment. Not one jot of empathy or thought as to why the woman prefers a female, but more concerned about his appearance.

Good morning, Hellofromtheotherside2020.i hope you’ve had a good day. I’m afraid I didn’t get my lie in, as I got a call at 7am! Seriously, some people! I see you and Kitten are still holding the fort.

I’m glad the conversation regarding prostate has given you a push, easyandy101. At least now you know you can have a choice between a male or female doctor, because those that create the rules in the health service obviously have more respect and empathy than a lot of the posters on here.

I posted this on one of the other Women! Your boundaries are terrible! threads of which there seem to be a few recently:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/09/tutor-not-job-man-roofer-male-midwife-nhs

My tutor told me she didn’t think men should be midwives, because what would they know about women and childbirth? That’s like saying an orthopaedic surgeon has to go and break a few bones before they can know how to repair them...

...I’m 50 now and have encountered a certain amount of sexism in my career. I’ve had 118 people – mostly women – refuse to be cared for by me. I have had other patients who were shocked to see a man; there was one who didn’t say anything, but the look of total shock on her face was very funny.

Yes it's always funny when women are uncomfortable but don't dare say anything.

Interesting to contrast with this article they published 17 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2003/may/14/familyandrelationships.nhs