AIBU to request no male midwife

[Hellofromtheotherside2020]

I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but I am due to give birth soon and at the hospital where I'm planning on giving birth, there are a few male midwives employed.

I think it's great that there are male midwives. It really must take a special kind of man to want to do that job and I expect they're very professional and amazing in their roles.

I know many women who've said that having a male midwife was better than a female etc etc as they were more sympathetic.

But for some reason, which I can't explain as I don't know why, I just feel so uncomfortable at the thought of having a male deliver my baby. It's not a sexual thing. I don't think a man will look at my vagina and get turned on or anything like that. I know they see plenty every day. I would feel uncomfortable, vulnerable, exposed and embarrassed if there was a man present (other than DH).

I know people will say "when you're in labour you won't care who's in the room", but I will care. I've given birth three times before and I did care then. I enjoyed my previous births and I was comfortable being surrounded by lovely women caregivers. I felt very feminine and powerful. I didn't care if the female caregiver had given birth herself or not, so it's not even a case of feeling the male midwife wouldn't have empathy or anything like that, which is what my friend suggested.

Am I the only person who feels like this?
How can I articulate my request to the hospital in my birth plan without sounding like a sexist pig? I feel so bad feeling his way as I know they're great at their jobs. I just know for sure I'd be so uncomfortable in my primal self giving birth and likely pooping myself in front of another man.

I'm the same with GPs and even dentists too, I just feel more comfortable under the care of another woman. What's wrong with me? Come to think of it, any make who is in a position of power/authority to me (eg senior colleagues) I always feel so vulnerable and inferior. Why?!!!! Help!

I realize that this is going to result in outrage from some, but I can't help wondering why someone would choose to go into a medical specialty where there are a significant percentage of patients who will refuse treatment from them. It's not as if female preference for female HCPs for intimate care is unknown, and with a midwife in particular I'd think most women would ideally prefer someone who'd given birth herself (obviously this won't always be possible). So when I hear "well what about the sad rejected male midwives" I'm sort of going, well, they chose to go into a field where rejection by patients was kind of to be expected, why did they do that? And if they did it anyway then surely it's not too much to ask that they accept the fact that some patients will want a woman instead graciously.

In reality I think most do accept it graciously, or at least more graciously than some of those arguing on their behalf here.

I know we're apparently not supposed to be saying handmaidens any more, but it's really hard to sum up the attitudes of some posters on here without using that term.

Eager Assistants maybe?

Because personally I wouldn't want to live with that kind of insecurity.

Good for you. Now, instead of telling women that they’re wrong to feel as they do, why don’t you tell bad men to stop abusing women, then maybe women won’t have those feelings to deal with. Or is it just easier to make women responsible for those men that do bad things?

but I can't help wondering why someone would choose to go into a medical specialty where there are a significant percentage of patients who will refuse treatment from them

As evidenced by this thread there's plenty that would be happy with performing monkeys so it doesn't seem so far out.

Not gonna lie, until this thread i didn't know that there were any men doing this job, but that's mostly cos I've never thought about it i suppose

Why are we not supposed to use handmaiden anymore?

It's not very PC, but I find a midwife an odd career choice for a man. I'm sure theyre capable etc, but it's about so much more than just the medical side. Can you imagine at a booking in telling him that your partner is abusing you? Any other medical profession I am not arsed if they're male, I had to have emergency surgery when I gave birth and I was more than happy to be in safe hands of any sex, buuuuut throughout pregnancy and in early labour I would have felt uncomfortable.

How is it victim blaming to suggest that a woman should have control and agency over her own decisions – and actually think them through, if she so chooses, rather than feeling obliged to live her life as though professional abuse is standard and to be expected as part of a woman’s everyday life unless she severely restricts herself in everything she does?

Why do you think that's what she or others are doing though? In order for risk to exist it only takes a few bad people to exist. 99% of people in any given field or scenario can be fine and that's not going to help you if you encounter one of the 1% that aren't. People who've already been traumatized may prefer to set their risk as close to 0 as humanly possible for entirely understandable reasons.

Traditionally midwives would have been older women who'd already given birth themselves, and I think that expectation is still there on an instinctive and emotional level, and that's who many women would find most reassuring to have around them while in labour. Given the ways in which mental and emotional state interact with how labour progresses I really don't see why it's unreasonable for the woman who's in labour to be surrounded with people she finds the most comforting and reassuring to the extent that's possible. If it's just not possible then that's a different matter, but if it is why wouldn't the medical system just give her what she wants?

Postpartum too. Checking stitches, helping with breastfeeding. It's all so intimate.
Like I said before, takes a very special type of person to go into midwifery. It's good (even though some may find it odd) that men can choose this career. And great for the women who are comfortable with them. But there are a lot of women who do prefer intimate care from female HCPs. So I'm sure the males in this career are used to having some women refuse their care. And they are probably OK with this and in some instances expect this. After all, if he had an issue with it then being a midwife wouldn't be his priority anyway as midwife are there "for women".

I realize that this is going to result in outrage from some, but I can't help wondering why someone would choose to go into a medical specialty where there are a significant percentage of patients who will refuse treatment from them. It's not as if female preference for female HCPs for intimate care is unknown, and with a midwife in particular I'd think most women would ideally prefer someone who'd given birth herself (obviously this won't always be possible).

I agree with you - baffles me why a man would specifically choose that as a profession knowing that his sex would be a potential cause of awkwardness and refusal of him at every single case.

But if he chooses to enter that profession with full knowledge of these facts and he finds enough genuinely willing recipients of his services to make his career viable, then all the best to him and his clients. As has already been said, many women would actively prefer an experienced male midwife who has been present at hundreds of births than a newly-qualified female midwife, who has not had children of her own, attending her first birth. Even so, I'd tend to think that the greatest preference would be for a female midwife of many years' experience and who is a mother of several children.

For me, whilst I fully support people's choices for a same-sex professional, I just fail to understand why most people would actually care or see it as a particular area of highly-probable risk when it's to do with teeth, eyes, bones, arms, digestive systems etc. - obviously not including people like the OP who have a very good reason for their reluctance.

There was another thread where someone was talking about having a male HCP (who as also behaving inappropriately in other ways) sweep his hand inside her vagina to check for tears and scratches after she'd given birth and I literally shuddered reading it. Again, no history of sexual assault, but still, the idea of having a random man sticking his hands inside me at a moment when I'd be exhausted and feeling weak and vulnerable viscerally horrified me. With a woman it still wouldn't be happy fun times but doesn't produce the same instinctive recoil and curl up to protect your vulnerable areas response.

I really don't think this is unusual at all, and if there are a lot of women who feel that way then an all or mostly female maternity team seems like kind of a no brainer (if the medical industry put pregnant women first, which it clearly does not).

Why do you think that's what she or others are doing though? In order for risk to exist it only takes a few bad people to exist. 99% of people in any given field or scenario can be fine and that's not going to help you if you encounter one of the 1% that aren't. People who've already been traumatized may prefer to set their risk as close to 0 as humanly possible for entirely understandable reasons.

I completely agree with your logic and especially for those who've previously experienced trauma - although if you've been subjected to trauma from, say, a Greek male HCP, that may well psychologically give you a greater aversion to Greek men (or even Greek women) than men (or women) of any other nationality.

Not wanting to trivialise anything, but you read on MN a lot about people deliberately avoiding giving their baby a name that they (or their spouses) otherwise like but can only associate with an unpleasant person from their past who happened to share that same (often common) name.

I think it's all about freedom. There are loads of abusive husbands out there, but it doesn't stop millions of women from actively choosing to form relationships with them - the majority of whom go on to have overall happy marriages with them. There are also a lot of (usually not violently) abusive wives, but still no shortage of men wishing to go ahead and marry.

It can present a risk (as with lesbian and gay male relationships), but most people prefer to weigh up the facts, risks and circumstances and make their own free choice on that basis.

Yes, a doctor or dentist is just a service-provider rather than a life partner and you can, if you prefer, refuse to see somebody of the same sex, even if that means you have to wait or switch to another provider (men wanting a male nurse for a blood test or check up at my reasonably big surgery would have to find a different one to re-register with).

Equally, you can insist on a female plumber or taxi driver or a male nanny or seamster (is that even a word?!) for any reason (maybe perceived safety or multiple bad experiences with men or women in the past) and refuse to employ one of the majority sex - but your freedom of choice will also come with limitations on availability, which you must accept as part and parcel of owning your decision.

Donttalkallatonce, there was a discussion on the thread below where it was felt not to be helpful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3756050-AIBU-to-think-that-Mumsnet-is-becoming-increasingly-less-feminist-and-that-this

I keep meaning to ask what term would be appropriate to use for a woman who actually is being a handmaiden: the Eager Assistant suggestion upthread is a pretty good one!

I couldn’t care less if I get banned for this but I’m shocked at some of the insensitive fuckers on here. Fortunately, they’re in the minority. I think it’s really bloody obvious as to why a woman having been violated by a male might feel afraid in a vulnerable moment. As it happens, I couldn’t care less who delivers my baby or does my smear but that doesn't give me a right to pass judgment on those who do care. OP has very valid reasons and nobody should make her - or anyone else - feel bad for it. I wonder if some of the ignorant GFs on here would respond in the same way it a man declined a female nurse.

Not a male midwife but a male doctor managed to turn DS for me whilst I was in labour as he was back to back and DS was in distress. I'll be forever thankful to him as he helped with about another 6 midwives deliver my baby boy into the world safely. I know you have already said it but once everything was going on I didn't care who was down there as they were doing the best for me and DS.
I get you might feel uncomfortable but I wouldn't worry too much about it. It might not even happen.

Hellofrom,

I, personally, would try to address this, but completely understand if you don't want to or don't feel ready. Even if your current work dynamic is fine it would be unfair (on yourself) if you lost out on career growth in the future because of this.
I also wonder if you starting this thread doesn't stem from the same (experiences, upbringing/ mum's influence). You clearly don't want to offend or come across badly and therefore stress about requesting a female, which is considerate of you, but ultimately - if the hospital/health service offers requesting a same sex HCP then you are fully entitled and reasonable to do so. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks and you should not lose a minute of sleep over it. You know your situation and reasons and that you, personally, would feel much more comfortable requesting one. If the midwife thinks you're a sexist witch she can take it up with the hospital who allows such requests - it is not your problem, you are just using an existing service.
You don't have to accept your past and think "these are my experiences and upbringing. this is how I am now". You can absolutely , albeit slowly, change that. Whatever you decide - best of luck to you and your baby!

I know you have already said it but once everything was going on I didn't care who was down there as they were doing the best for me and DS.

That's nice. But it doesn't give you the right to say because you're okay with it, everyone else should be.

It is sexist to be one sex or the other, and not sexist to require same sex specific help to support dignity, privacy and bodily autonomy. Women have every right to worry about what keeps them safe and feel respected, without worry about upsetting anyone else because others don't matter.

What stupid arguments on here from some. We need to make sure that midwifery is female as this is the only way to ensure that no women is ever out into the position of having to choose between forgeoing all dignity and respect because hers or her babies life might be on the line or in to much pain to speak.

Sounds so much like she was too asleep/unconscious to consent.

Its exactly the same.

Why would a man be so upset and unable to get his mentality around women wanting women for labour and delivery?

Men dont have to be everywhere, men have clubs that exclude women, yet thats not life and death, but when it comes to women, having anything that women for women all reasons are denied, challenged nullified and repeatedly bullied over.

Interesting

Since posting earlier, I've been reflecting on my last birth. The health visitor who turned up at my house the following day was a male student HV and as such, he was shadowing a (female) HV, but was at the stage where he was taking the lead. He was lovely, I can't find fault with his attitude and he was also clearly a bit nervous. I realised in the days following:

• that I spent the whole time dreading him asking to examine me
• that he had complimented my appearance which made me feel uncomfortable, surely how I looked doesn't matter? And I then felt a bit self-conscious as it was brought up
• that I was embarrassed by some of the routine questions asked and wouldn't have replied truthfully if there was a problem
• that I'd been meaning to mention something (which turned out to be a minor issue).

It meant that the whole appointment was a bit of a waste of time.

Meaning to mention something which I changed my mind about as it would have been embarrassing for me and I could see he was already nervous so could have made him feel awkward too*

Ahhhh, it's one of those AIBUs!

OP's very first words: "I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but ..."

Some posters: "Yes, you're being unreasonable."

Affronted OP: "... it's my body and my feelings. Why should I be ashamed of how I feel when it's not unique? Why should I be bullied into being made to feel differently or to justify why I feel a certain way?

I..... Don't.....feel..... Comfortable.... With.... A.... Male.... I.... Don't.....know.... Looking.....at..... My....... Intimate.....parts.

That's society. That's why we have male and female toilets. That's why we have male and female changing rooms. Women gym classes. Men's night in pubs..."

No, it's not one of those AIBUs. Most have been supportive to the OP and helped her see that no, she isn't bu.

YANBU

My mum always said she didn't want a student male midwife on me her first born- she dosent know why but shes a very very nervous person. She was given a male student and 4 kids later still says he was the best one she's ever had