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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are the conservatives really this popular?

999 replies

LabourHere · 02/12/2019 20:57

Listening to statistician on BBC who reckons the conservatives are head in all polls and will win a majority on election day.

I know only two people voting conservative (mil and dm). Who are all the other conservative voters??

Are the conservatives really going to win the election so easily?

If so...I'm very very sad Sad Wine

OP posts:
TheABC · 08/12/2019 18:58

I have not read the whole thread, but has anyone who plans to vote conservative given a positive reason for doing so?

One of the defining features of this election gas been an utter lack of hope for the future. I would really like something to look forward to.

Alsohuman · 08/12/2019 18:59

We haven’t had health authorities for nearly seven years. We now have CCGs, a Tory innovation, which spend money like water before it ever goes near a patient. Hopefully they’ll soon be history.

sunglasses123 · 08/12/2019 19:05

All of those who are asking why vote Conservative - you have been given many reasons. This is why Labour will be in The wilderness for many years to come, blaming the press, stupid people who not think like them, the under 24’s not voting and so it goes on.

I would love a strong opposition but this shower in Labour is not it.

sunglasses123 · 08/12/2019 19:12

No one in their right mind will think that Labour will get a majority. It could be a hung parliament.

They will try and do deals with any party and then nothing will get sorted. Endless referendums with a leader stating he won’t state what he wants, he won’t even give the name of the person who will negotiate a new deal.

Lightkeeper · 08/12/2019 19:12

@XingMing

You need to keep up. Autonomous trains are already being introduced on London lines (not DLR). Yes, they still have drivers to close the doors and ensure safety at stations, etc. – but it's just going to be a matter of time for that to be passed on to a machine. Chances are, data is gathered re. what drivers do and that data will make complete automation possible in future.

And as for people on 80k: Private education would not be necessary, if our state schools were actually... good... you know?! Degrees in Europe are either free or have minimal admin charges. Why can't it be free here?!?

Can we all please look at what we actually ARE paying our taxes for. Why do we get so much less than our friends in Europe?

XingMing · 08/12/2019 19:18

@TheABC, my reason for voting Tory in this election, is as I have said over and again because I think Labour's plans are an ill-considered, badly thought out, mathematically inaccurate bunch of cloud cuckoo sh*te. I do not like Boris, do not endorse the sale or rundown of the NHS and as a teacher I deplore the inadequate funding of education to age 18.

I am pinning my hopes on a revival of realism. And of younger politicians who will stick around to answer the consequences of the decisions they take in the next few years. The generation who are keeping their heads down and their powder dry for what's ahead, after Brexit. And meanwhile, I am holding my nose, exercising my hard-won vote, and scratching my cross for a candidate I dislike profoundly.

Lightkeeper · 08/12/2019 19:24

@XingMing

Labour's plans are an ill-considered, badly thought out, mathematically inaccurate bunch of cloud cuckoo shte*

You can say the same about the Tories.

Look - I'm not a Labour party member and will vote for another party. Labour has zero plans where I live. But you seem to have double standards. The Tories can do all sort of shit, but unless Labour is near perfect, you won't be happy.

WorkingAsHardAsICan · 08/12/2019 19:26

It is not so much about the popularity of the Conservatives but about the extreme policies and lack of dealing with issues of Labour

Alsohuman · 08/12/2019 19:31

What issues aren’t Labour dealing with?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2019 19:31

Anyone who says they are not voting labour because of Corbyn is using a very poor excuse to justify where their vote is going

If it was only about Corbyn I'd agree, but sadly he's just a symbol for a great deal else that's wrong with the party - in fact almost a deflection from others such as McDonnell

We're often assured that "corbyn won't be there for long", but funnily enough I don't recall hearing the same about his ally John. Instead it seems we'd have to suffer him as Chancellor, and that really doesn't bear thinking about

XingMing · 08/12/2019 19:32

@Lightkeeper, quite a lot of European universities charge fees I think, especially the better ones (and v few (any?)) make the global Top 20 universities. They charge c. 3000 Euros per year, but most students attend from their home/local region so the costs/debts incurred are offset by not stupid accommodation costs. The US has charged university tuition for all tertiary education except the (lowly regarded) county/community colleges since I lived there -- in the 1980s. An Ivy League education now costs on average (I looked it up recently for DS who expressed interest) $250,000 before maintenance. No, we can't afford it either.

Alsohuman · 08/12/2019 19:36

It would appear that EU students don’t pay fees in a number of EU countries. Yet another suicidal effect of Brexit.

www.mastersportal.com/articles/405/tuition-fees-at-universities-in-europe-in-2019-overview-and-comparison.html

BackInTime · 08/12/2019 19:48

I am pinning my hopes on a revival of realism. And of younger politicians who will stick around to answer the consequences of the decisions they take in the next few years. The generation who are keeping their heads down and their powder dry for what's ahead, after Brexit

I admire your optimism. I agree with that with Brexit we are all in for a crash course in reality but I doubt any younger politicians will want to take the mess on and sort it out. As for any decent Conservatives waiting on the periphery I think the chances are slim given that they now resemble UKIP/ Brexit party more than anything

Lightkeeper · 08/12/2019 19:59

@XingMing

I really don't know where you get your info from but I know what I am talking about... because between my siblings and I, we have studied in the UK, Germany, France... I'm pretty sure I missed another country or so out... but nowhere did we have to pay fees like in the UK.

Most European universities charged 3-figure fees (at a push... low 4-figure fees in GBP) per semester. And what's vital is that they charge all EU citizens the same fees, but now that we're brexiting, we're losing all that. (Look at the Alsohuman's link)

I'm also not sure why you are constantly zooming in on the affordability of private education and now the Top 20 unis in the world.... the majority of students don't attend them! Are you an Asian Tiger Mum?!? If so, given my family background, I'd understand!

Look, I went to one of the top unis in the UK. And yes, it has a certain 'cache' here in the UK. A friend went to a German university you don't hear of outside of Germany. At all. BUT she made use of Erasmus programs and exchange programs to Canada and the US, which means she actually got something like four degrees from different universities all over the world after around 4-5 years of higher education.

Compared with my education, hers sounds a hell of a lot better and more cosmopolitan, too. We both reached similar levels career-wise, though her career is probably far more interesting than mine.

The lesson here is that outside of the UK, there is far less focus on WHICH uni you went to, and a lot more focus on what you actually did during university to expand your horizon. The latter makes more sense, to be honest.

XingMing · 08/12/2019 20:15

Decent point @Lightkeeper. You've hit me between the eyes. I have spent so long being worried about Labour's rainbows and unicorns promises, and the betrayal of democracy that I have failed to think about what policies I would like to see, other than that I am not prepared to write any party a blank cheque.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see academic children educated with others of the same mind, and the more practical/technically minded taught well with useful essential knowledge that will serve them all their lives, including basic home economics and consumer finance, health and wellbeing and flexibility to switch between the two streams, with all children offered opportunities for art/culture and sport, in classes under 25. Special needs provision and support funded. Scant tolerance of disruptive behaviour.

I'd introduce a universal basic income, at the minimum taxable level, so eliminating the zero-tax category because everyone over 18 would get it. Child allowance per child born before it was restricted to two children per family, but to two children per mother born after. A disability allowance on top for those who are physically disabled or severely impaired by mental health problems.

I'd like to see the NHS dual-funded, by the taxpayer at source for emergency care and children, including dentistry. With a means-tested co-payment contribution for anything else, including GP visits, to be paid by anyone in employment paying more than the state pension, which would be the same as UBI. So well to do pensioners, with more than state pension would still be paying for their care, unless hit by the proverbial bus.

I'd keep tuition fees, but at a more modest level, and let their repayment act as a proxy for a graduate tax on higher earners, at approximately the current level. For practical reasons, I would encourage students to attend university near home, but encourage loan provision via banks for those wishing to study elsewhere, on commercial terms.

I would adopt Theresa May's (derided) plan or very similar for the provision of social care for the elderly, so if you own a property or business, your estate would be charged post-humously for the value of care received, with a residual amount (IIRC it was £100K) left to the family. The legator bought the property and received tax relief on it; why should the state fund your inheritance?

Above the £100K limit, inheritance tax would be levied at the standard rate of tax. Except agricultural properties and corporate assets, where I'd levy charges on the basis of a land value tax every time the ownership changed.

All second homes and homes bought via company/investment vehicles would be charged double council tax.

I would like to see business rates altered to a levy on turnover, with a minimum threshold per square metre.

Good heavens, I've gone so far, and now I can feel the wrath about to descend on me. Not to mention the law of unintended consequences, which I know you will call out. Please bear in mind that I am not the Chancellor of the Exchequer and have spent an hour trying to think this through, without civil servants to help, and no elves either!

XingMing · 08/12/2019 20:41

I think I only mentioned private education and its affordability (or otherwise) once on this thread. It's certainly not a particular priority.

XingMing · 08/12/2019 21:38

Oh, and there would be graduated levels of tax above basic rate, probably starting from about £60K per person, or £85k per couple, and rising quite rapidly above £150k.

Whoops, power and broadband failure... thanks Storm Atiyee!

XingMing · 08/12/2019 21:47

All turned in for Sunday night I guess. Good night all. Sleep well and sweet dreams.

Alrighteo · 08/12/2019 22:01

I've voted Labour and was a swinging voter (not swinging really).

I had both candidates added on my Facebook page. I was really looking for a reason to not vote Tory, and I found it in the Labour candidate.

I'm in IDS's constituency. There's a shortfall of 3k votes for Labour to get in. Hard to know how it will go. I've had two Labour campaigners knock on my door, but none Tory (haha - they'd get a right mouthful).

It's a constituency where the bollocks will probably win, but it's been fought furiously. Albeit more diplomatically than I would be!

Our labour candidate is of Pakistani origin. Grew up in the area and went to Oxford. My constituency is probably too white and middle class to win it, but stranger things have happened.

handmedownqueen · 08/12/2019 22:09

Ive been out doing some canvassing today for Labour. Labour seat, marginal, majority about 5000. Main thing I have heard is a dislike for both parties and was shocked by people in their 60s who have voted lab previously who say they aren't going to bother voting for anyone this time. Plus a WASPI woman who had literally just got a letter informing her and she again wasn't going to bother to vote as she felt Lab were being unrealistic promising to pay her. The only thing that cut through at all was the NHS and even then people are just fed up of all politicians.

Alrighteo · 08/12/2019 22:18

I have to say I was getting a dose of the Mumsnetters when I heard the doorbell go today. 'WHO ON EARTH could be calling on a Sunday'. Poor guy got a very abrupt 'Ye I've already voted'.

wherearemychickens · 08/12/2019 22:24

I think if you're stuck on the national parties it's definitely worth looking at your local candidates. We could do with more like Dominic Grieve, and less like Iain Duncan Smith, that's for sure. I've never voted Conservative in my life, but I would be out campaigning for Dominic Grieve if I lived in his constitutency even though he's through and through a conservative politician (small c intended, as I think it's his party that has left him in its lurch towards populist nationalism, not vice-versa). His sense of principle and dedication to the country is amazing.

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 22:25

Alrighteo - It would be wonderful to boot out IBS!

wherearemychickens · 08/12/2019 22:26

I think the last parliament has shown that 'who' matters. I live in a safe Tory seat and our MP has shown himself to have no principles - he will follow the whip wherever the whip goes, changing his position to suit.

XingMing · 08/12/2019 22:28

As a family, we have a reasonably wide understanding of the world. Between my sister and I, we have worked in the USA, the UAE, Germany, Belgium, Taiwan, Ivory Coast and Brazil. My DH has lived in Singapore, Cyprus, Germany, Belgium and the UAE. Other friends have lived in Australia, New Zealand, Kuwait, Nigeria, South Africa, Zambia, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Iraq, Iran and Saudi (and I've missed some out for sure). Our children and their friends have been educated mostly as expatriates in all these countries.

Anyone who understands the nuances will recognise that we are all the children/spouses/members of the diplomatic service, armed forces or the oil business (you don't have to like us, but we're global, and won't ever disappear completely, although hopefully the need for both force and oil will wane).

Whatever you think, we have all knocked around the world a bit, under mostly comfortable observing circumstances apart from war zones, and talked a lot. The collective wisdom is that most politicians, worldwide, are idealistic and stupid, or corrupt and stupid. The rare clever ones... are to be respected and feared.

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