Are the conservatives really this popular?

[LabourHere]

Listening to statistician on BBC who reckons the conservatives are head in all polls and will win a majority on election day.

I know only two people voting conservative (mil and dm). Who are all the other conservative voters??

Are the conservatives really going to win the election so easily?

If so...I'm very very sad

I’ve worked in the NHS for nearly 30 years. Believe me when I say front line care is dangerously unsafe. I am talking third world conditions.

@checkedcloth you ought to know better then.

Your ire should be directed at the NHS Trusts who are mismanaged. The CEOs are the ones earning 6 figure salaries and not managing funds. They don't even have a central buying process for supplies. The NHS is badly managed and badly run.

You ought to be ashamed for suggesting people vote for a corrupt party like Labour whose J Mcdonald was kicked off the GLC by Livingstone for bankrupting it. You really think they could run the country? What a joke.

They may have done in 2017. I suspect it will be considerably smaller next Friday.

To be fair, you just can’t say that unless you know more than the poster about the demographics and voting intentions in the constituency.

In my constitutuency (safe tory, leave) the tories achieved 56% in 2015 and 58% in 2017. The Lib Dem vote was 7.5% for both elections.

Labour increased their vote share from 16% to 30% over the two elections but UKIP were the third party in 2015 with 15%. Their vote share collapsed to about 1% in 2017. Most of those voters ‘returned’ to Labour.

Who do you think those 2015 UKIP voters will vote for this year? I highly doubt it will be Labour or Lib Dem.

I think this pattern will be replicated in many Tory seats outside London. 2015 UKIP voters who voted Labour in 2017 will not do so again this year.

Here we go, that tired old trope again. It was a global financial crash that left the country “bankrupt” in 2010. Other countries were in the same position but they had sensible governments that managed their economies properly without punishing their citizens. At least own it that austerity was ideological.

@ReadtheSmallPrint, I can say I suspect anything I like. It wasn’t a statement of fact.

You ought to be ashamed for suggesting people vote for a corrupt party like Labour

A party whose chairman had his mortgage paid off by a trade union benevolent fund. For the many eh?

@Lightkeeper, as someone who lived in the US for years, I don't like the increasingly Presidential style of government either; life isn't or shouldn't be so binary, but faced with two wish-lists of (fanciful/rabid) electoral promises, I am always going to vote for the more modest / better considered of the two. Purely on the basis that the more modest will leave a smaller problem to be sorted out later.

No, I don't like seeing homeless people, child poverty, or disabled people unable to live without fearing for tomorrow. But I also empathise with the blue collar skilled voter like my plumber and your electrician, and the train driver who fear their earnings will be being plundered for tax by politicians of any party who see their £80k salaries/turnover (most of it hourly paid earnings from their direct labour) as fair game for higher taxation, in the same way they would wish to fleece a non-dom hedge fund owner. The median income in the UK may be around £29k (which would be generous near me), but it doesn't make them a plutocrat. The truly wealthy will just evaporate elsewhere.

The wisest words ever written about taxation, by Colbert, a French chancellor in the 17th century: The art of taxation is like plucking geese; it's getting the most feathers with the least amount of hissing.

I’m struggling with this election.

Last election I was a Labour member and a big fan of Corbyn. The tribal politics have started to make me disillusioned though, I got a lot of abusive on messages on twitter because I shared some concern about antisemitism. I didn’t tag anyone in it and only had 15 followers but the tweet blew up. I was accused of being a Russian bot and a paid shill, it was bizarre because it was a very tame opinion.

I’m trying to look at this election in a non Tribal way. I can’t believe I’m saying this and it does make me ill thinking about it but I might be voting Conservative. So many different reasons why and I’m arguing with myself on a daily basis but it’s the conclusion I keep coming to.

Your ire should be directed at the NHS Trusts who are mismanaged. The CEOs are the ones earning 6 figure salaries and not managing funds. They don't even have a central buying process for supplies. The NHS is badly managed and badly run.

They can't even communicate with other agencies! The NHS is just a black hole of layers of bureaucracy that rewards dysfunctional behaviour and more money will accomplish precisely nothing in the absence of reform.

AlsoHuman, excuse me for reminding you but was it not one Gordon Brown (Lab) who sold the UK's gold reserves (at the lowest point of the cycle) in favour of contempory expenditure and who in 1997 removed the dividend tax credit from pension funds, and so transformed (for the worse) the prospects of a majority of corporate pension funds? Quiet moves that seemed harmless to most at the time of their enactment, but which have had serious to catastrophic consequences for millions of ordinary people.

How dare you say ‘where was i?’ And how dare you land this at the hands of CEOs

I’m in a very very senior nursing position. Our CEO is wonderful. Yes he earns 6 figures. And rightly so - you have absolutely no idea of the level of responsibility these people carry they literally live and breath their organisation

And where was I? I’ve been caring for you, yiur families, for drunks, drug addicts, for babies, for the dying. I know what I am talking about.

You should be ashamed. Your moral fibre is missing

You should be ashamed. Your moral fibre is missing

More of the same.

Yes, there was a global financial crisis in 2008, but the reckless spending of the Labour government from 1997, after Ken Clarke's harsh measures post Black Friday put the Exchequer back on course for an even keel, made it more severe than it should have been. And before you reiterate the austerity imposed by the Conservatives, may I suggest you read Alistair Darling's book Back from the Brink from which you will hoist in the meaning of the note left in the Chancellor's drawer, saying, "There is no more money."

On the flip side I only know a couple of people who will vote Labour everyone else is a Tory - being a mix of remain and leave so some might defect to lib den or green

Anyone who says they are not voting labour because of Corbyn is using a very poor excuse to justify where their vote is going.

Why not stand up and say "I am a Tory. I WANT the NHS to be privatised, I WANT our underfunded schools to receive more cuts, I WANT nurses to pay for their own training, I WANT austerity, I want police numbers to be cut, I WANT our armed forces to be at the lowest level since the Napoleonic wars. I WANT the well off to avoid paying taxes, I WANT to work until i drop in spite of paying for a pension my whole working life"

Now, it's your vote and you do as you wish but please find a better excuse than "anyone but Corbyn"

I will be voting labour because I have 2 young sons whos schools cannot cope with funding, the NHS is on its knees with no hope I'm sight. Vunerable people do not receive the care they deserve and it's just so awful to see. Young families and struggling single parents are going hungry.
I URGE you to think of everyone around you, not just yourselves and how much money you will have under a Tory government.

Yes - and I can keep it coming. Tell you what, come and spend a few hours in ED with me and see how comfortable you are with 89 year olds who are frail and with dementia and are on a frilly in a corridor for 8 hours.

Fancy seeing that piece of reality do you?

@XingMing

In my mind, the Tory Party is not the "more modest" / "better considered" of the two. They have zero plans beyond Brexit; they are a bunch of privileged twats who are just playing roulette with the country.

I empathize with the blue collar/skilled worker... but frankly, if you earn 80k, you live comfortably in this country and will continue to live comfortably regardless. What workers should be worried about is automation, which means they may be out of a job at some point in time. Given that the DLR is pretty much driverless already, I don't see a big future/demand for train drivers in future, for example.

Other countries pay slightly higher taxes than us, and people seem to have a higher standard of living. It's the mindset that needs changing. Many think they are going to be the one who earns 80k, but the truth is only a few do. It's similar to inheritance tax in the US. Every time it's discussed, there are people who say they don't have XX million dollars, but if they do, they don't want their children to be burdened by too much inheritance tax... the likelihood they'll ever have that many millions is low, but they are afraid it will hit them regardless.

Disingenous RoxyRoo and a little naive. Are you under 25? Hate to be the boring grown up here, but when you get a bit older -- and I really hope life will be better for you and your family, you will probably become a bit more cynical about politicians who promise you the moon and stars.

It is, as normal, a two horse race. Boris will win because JC is vile. If Labour had a different leader, they’d likely win.
If only John Smith were still alive (and 20 years younger).

@XingMing, how fucking rude and patronising is that? I agree with every word roxy said and I’m in my seventh decade.

I am far from 25 or under thank you, I'm what you would call a "real" grown up
Where does it say I lead a rubbish life?

@Lightkeeper, the DLR was built to be driverless! Top speed of under 45mph. It only has drivers because the RMT insisted on it. The same is not true of other rail lines which have more complex junctions/signalling and which require skills and knowledge.

Yes, £80K is good money, but it's not riches especially for someone living in the Southeast, and certainly not enough to fund private education and healthcare and a mortgage and a pension contribution. So those people definitely have a stake in a socially just society. They have ageing parents and use the health service too, so are unlikely to want to see it, or education, trashed so everyone can have free broadband and do fine arts degrees free of charge.

They have ageing parents and use the health service too, so are unlikely to want to see it, or education, trashed

They won’t be voting Tory then.

Anyone skilled/aspirational who works in a trade eg a plumber/builder etc should absolutely be nervous about Corbyn's policies. A lot of these guys have non-PAYE income and aim to flip houses, for example.

I hate this paternalistic brand of socialism.

I am laughing my socks off at a PP defending their CEO’s. I have been a big supplier to the NHS for over 30 years. I specialised in health and local authorities. The waste, the endless meetings about nothing to ensure cottage industry depts keep their roles. The CEO’s on vast salaries are in charge of this!

Health authorities are wasting millions on pontificating and not making decisions. Still, if they don’t take any suggestions as to how they can save money, well even better, more bonus for me as I am paid on revenue!

But it’s not right because this is tax payers money being wasted.

And Labour want more state control.....

@Roxy and @Also. I am also in my seventh decade and although I am a Tory for this election, I also don't want the NHS or education privatised. I think the current Labour party are demogogues, cynically making the promises they believe voters want to hear.