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Original poster

Are the conservatives really this popular?

999 replies

LabourHere · 02/12/2019 20:57

Listening to statistician on BBC who reckons the conservatives are head in all polls and will win a majority on election day.

I know only two people voting conservative (mil and dm). Who are all the other conservative voters??

Are the conservatives really going to win the election so easily?

If so...I'm very very sad Sad Wine

OP posts:
ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 01:21

There might be a lot more rebellious Tories if it's only a narrow majority - he's shamed the party with his lying and conniving and there's still the Russia report and the Arcuri investigation outcome to deal with

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/12/2019 01:23

I never said it was that simple

It’s that they haven’t worked together (apart from a few made an attempt earlier this year that was just too late and what happened to that)

Self interest covers both sides of the house

CendrillonSings · 08/12/2019 01:27

If Boris wins a majority, the party will fall in line. We conservatives love a winner Smile

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 01:31

But that's irrelevant now that Labour are offering a 2nd ref-if people want that they can vote for it.

We're in the here and now, MP's have had to navigate totally new territory in a highly toxic atmosphere what's the point of dragging over it when there's a chance to put a stop to it once and for all?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/12/2019 01:37

It’s been a very difficult three years

Boris Johnson has whipped his party more into line and I’m sure the new candidates have been vetted on their Brexit stance he isn’t going to allow new rebels to come into the party - a few have now also left politics (or their seats)

If people were still that passionate about a second referendum and believed Labour would deliver that they would be far ahead in the polls and would win a comfortable majority - that isn’t and won’t be the case

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 01:53

I'm not saying they're passionate - it's amazing how little Brexit has come up in the election, far less than Johnson and Co bargained on and they have also bargained on a majority of voters still being in favour of Brexit which I think is a mistake.

Whatever vetting he has done won't hold if/when public opinion turns against him - they'll desert him in a heartbeat

Every commentator I've heard has said that this election is the hardest to call that they've ever experienced. There are still a huge number of undecided voters. That doesn't have to mean a Labour majority but might well prevent a Tory one

thehorseandhisboy · 08/12/2019 12:05

The thing about Johnson is that if he should get a majority, he'll pursue his oven ready hard Brexit, hand the NHS over to Trump, destroy the welfare state until he gets bored of it, and then resign.

I agree that that the NHS is at the forefront of many peoples' concerns than Brexit, far more than in 2017.

And rightly so.

Comradesally of course people suffer under Labour too.

But go to any NHS ward, care home, food bank or urban street full of people sleeping rough and tell us that it was just like than pre-2010.

thehorseandhisboy · 08/12/2019 12:12

Just a small example of this, the UK now has more food banks than it does McDonald outlets.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-food-banks-than-mcdonalds-17374595

Working people haven't suffered like this for decades, and the Tories plans are for more, much much more, of the same and worse.

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 12:31

Much much worse as the Tory Brexit chaos will continue to suck up all parliamentary time and energy

ajandjjmum · 08/12/2019 12:39

Talking to someone last week who has voted Labour (postal vote), purely to get her Waspi women's payout. She is someone who has always worked hard, on low wage, and simply cannot afford to retire before she gets her state pension. Any contribution towards bringing that forward she welcomes with open arms.

I understand completely - although she may end up disappointed. But the decision was made on purely selfish grounds, with no consideration for those less well off, or in difficult times.

And yet those voting Tory are told they are the ones who are self-centred and uncaring (or a not so polite version of that!) We ALL look to our own interests up to a point, even if that interest is just satisfying our 'woke' credentials.

EntropyRising · 08/12/2019 12:48

Agreed, the Waspi women have just as good a reason to vote Labour as anyone.

thecatneuterer · 08/12/2019 12:57

I haven't read the thread so I'm just answering the OP. I don't believe the Tories are popular, I think they are just seen as the less appalling of the (in realistic terms) only two options.

I'm a passionate remainer. I can't bear Boris. I think the Tories have been dreadful. However, given a choice between them and Labour, I would have to choose them. If only the Labour party were (much) more moderate and had a decent leader then they would be romping away in the polls.

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 12:59

Your friend might have voted for selfish reasons aj but the point you're missing is that by voting Labour she will not be harming others out of selfishness.

If she was voting Tory out of self-interest she would have to accept that she might be throwing a huge number of vulnerable people under the bus

ajandjjmum · 08/12/2019 13:08

I think you're talking out of your arse, Arse. A Labour Govt. would harm others significantly.

CharlottesPleb · 08/12/2019 13:10

At some point it became socially acceptable to pretend you think everyone who doesn't take the "correct" view on any given issue is a monster and make a big unseemly fuss about it. Some people delight in doing this to anyone they can, because then they can pretend to be morally superior.

It is also supposed to be a secret ballot.

These things are why people tell you they believe what you believe and that they are voting Labour when you inappropriately try to glean their politics.

thehorseandhisboy · 08/12/2019 13:14

ajandjjmum it doesn't sound like the woman you describe is voting to 'satisfy her woke credentials'. It sounds like she's voting to try to ensure that she doesn't have to retire into poverty.

Of course she's 'self-interested' - wanting to have enough money to live on is a very sensible idea.

The point I made up thread is that is you're fortunate enough not to be living hand to mouth and are unlikely to be in that situation in the future regardless of the outcome of the election, you could broaden your view of 'self-interest' to include a perspective that a fairer society with fewer wealth inequalities where everyone had their basic needs met is better for everyone.

Or the 'oh I'm a high earner and work very hard and don't go to the GPs because I'm not ill and don't have any handouts but I don't want to pay so much council tax' brigade could employ some of their self-reported intelligence and recognise that ALL of their good fortune, earning capacity and nice lifestyle is because of the labour of people much more poorly paid than them.

The people who work in factories manufacturing goods; the people who harvest and work in food production; the people who build roads, drive transport, clean the streets; the people who make, sort, pack and deliver whatever consumer items your purchase; the people who teach your children; the people who care for your elderly parents, ad infinitum, ad infinitum.

MN has been a (sad) education for me in that respect. That there really are people that don't grasp these very basic realities, nor have any intention of thinking in an intelligent way about them.

EntropyRising · 08/12/2019 13:19

MN has been a (sad) education for me in that respect. That there really are people that don't grasp these very basic realities, nor have any intention of thinking in an intelligent way about them.

Yes, it's all very sad.

Alsohuman · 08/12/2019 13:21

A Labour Govt. would harm others significantly

Who would it harm?

CendrillonSings · 08/12/2019 13:22

by voting Labour she will not be harming others out of selfishness.

Are you joking? Voting to tax the living shite out of other people - 83 billion pounds a year in new taxes! - to fund gigantic giveaways to themselves is the definition of harming others out of selfishness.

thehorseandhisboy · 08/12/2019 13:23

It is indeed Entrophy.

Care to comment further?

ArseDarkly · 08/12/2019 13:31

I'm a passionate remainer. I can't bear Boris. I think the Tories have been dreadful

thecat you cannot describe yourself as 'a passionate remainer' and vote for a government committed to Brexit.

It's not compulsory to vote for either of the two main parties you know!

StarbucksSmarterSister · 08/12/2019 13:42

If only the Labour party were (much) more moderate

But you're ok to vote for a Tory party that has become further to the right than Labour is to the left? Because that's what you'd be doing. There are no remotely moderate Tory frontbenchers now.

Lightkeeper · 08/12/2019 13:42

There is NO WAY I can bring myself to vote Tory or any party supporting Leave. I'm not happy with Corbyn... but I'll take him over any of the Tory sh*t anytime. Luckily, to vote tactically where I live, I have to vote for neither of the two main parties.

By the way... my OH and I earn good money and don't get handouts from the state. But unlike some Tory supporters who think they are in the upper echelons because of sheer hard work, we are very much aware that a lot of what you have in life is about LUCK.

I'm lucky that both my parents went to uni and encouraged me to go to uni. I'm lucky that I grew up in different countries, learning to speak more than one language. I'm lucky that quite a few of the jobs I had relied on the fact that I speak more than one language (despite me not studying languages at uni). I'm lucky that my job pays me more than double the median wage. I'm lucky to have met my well-educated and loyal OH through an ex-colleague.

Without all that luck, we wouldn't be where we are now. I know people who worked harder than me, but didn't benefit from my type of (supposedly upper middle class) upbringing that – subconsciously – opens doors. It really wasn't sheer hard work that got my foot through the door (I was rather lazy at uni), but a lot of luck (and the resulting privilege). With less luck, we could have a different life entirely. This is why I would want a fairer society than what the Tories want.

thecatneuterer · 08/12/2019 14:30

@ArseDarkly I agree. And I'm in fact going to vote Lib Dem and in this unfortunate first past the post system that will have no effect on anything. However were I in a marginal Labour/Tory seat then I would feel forced to vote Tory as I find the prospect of a Labour govt marginally more terrifying than that of a Tory one. I'm just hoping for a hung parliament with centrist parties holding the balance of power.

thecatneuterer · 08/12/2019 14:31

@StarbucksSmarterSister No I'm not OK to vote Tory. I just find them the slighter lesser of the two dreadful evils. As it is I'm going to vote Lib Dem, but that will probably be a wasted vote.