To contemplate reporting someone for possible benefit fraud? WWYD?

[WWYDhey]

So there’s this girl I know. Not a close friend but someone I know and would say hi to in the street. We are Facebook friends. I know a bit about her through mutual friends.

She is claiming as a single parent of two kids but her boyfriend lives with her. Full time. They have actually just become engaged and she is pregnant. He has 3 kids to someone else with which he sees 2 of them every other week.

He is ‘unemployed’ but I believe he works full time for cash in hand. (Some kind of joinery or building work)

What has made me consider reporting her (if that’s something you can even do??) is that she spends all her ‘free’ money on weekly hair up appointments, professional make up done. New nails etc (we all know this as she documents everything on Facebook) always out at restaurants and nights out. Almost like she is bragging.
Doesn’t look like she spends much on her kids. They always look a bit scruffy and bored in her photos. (Think tops that look too small or worn out)

And now that she’s pregnant she’s uploading loads of expensive purchases for the baby (ted baker everything, massive pram ordained in Jewell’s)

Now I know some of the replies I will get here will be along the lines of ‘what’s it got to do with you how she spends her money’

• well yes it has nothing to do with me but it is really irritating that I work full time with kids and pay a lot in tax and have to scrimp and save. I don’t get all of the luxuries she does. Yet ina round about way I contribute to it.

‘How do you know she’s on benefits’ our mutual friend knows she is for certain. Plus she works 18 hours per week in a cafe so it’s not rocket science.

So would you report someone claiming as a single parent when she isn’t?

YABU- Dont report her and don’t give it another thought

YANBU- Do report her

If so how would you report anonymously?

I can't believe how some bitter some people are. Get a life instead of dissecting others' online, Sherlock.

The 15% rightly being caught makes me feel better.

Yes, I mean fuck the fact that the 85% of false reports cost more than the fraud itself. Fuck the fact that you're encouraging citizens to turn on each other. Let's not give a stuff about the bigger picture and where most of the money goes. Got to be worth it to stick it to the occasional small fry gaming the system. Let's ignore the bankers and disaster capitalists and just nail the little people to the floor. It's especially great when you can convince them they should do this to each other.

*More than 85% of public tips on benefit 'frauds' are false
Figures obtained by the Observer show that in the 1m alleged cases of benefit fraud put forward by the public, about 890,000 showed no fraud had taken place
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/false-benefit-fraud-allegations

Malicious reports cost more than benefit fraud.*

This ^ !

Let's ignore the bankers and disaster capitalists and just nail the little people to the floor. It's especially great when you can convince them they should do this to each other

And this! ^ well said both.

This woman probably hasn’t even done anything, let her OH stay over a few nights more than he is allowed. Shocking that 70% of people voted YANBU and report. So nice to know that some people havnt been destroyed by government divide and conquer politics / propaganda. Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity both and the other 30%

1. You have absolutely no idea what her benefits situation really is. None at all, despite what your ' friend says. You have no proof whatsoever.

2 People post all sorts of shite on Facebook. It is well known that people post stuff that make their lives look good, usually better than they really are. Facebook gives you ZERO idea about what a person's life is really like.

I don't have any objection to reporting genuine benefit fraud but the reality is that to do that you need to know that person pretty well and to know the ins and outs.of their life and where they get their money. Reporting a friend or relative is much harder so is done less often I imagine.

Reporting someone on rumours and what has been told to you by someone else is pretty low. It is unhealthy to obsess in this way about someone you hardly know and quite vindictive to try to get them into trouble deliberately when you have no real knowledge of their life at all. Just hearsay and rumour along with a few pictures and posts on Facebook.

OP why don't you ask the person concerned by making a comment / asking a question about the bejewelled pram on their Fakebook page?

Own it!

I know someone who was reported (no it wasn't me that reported them) and their benefits were definitely NOT stopped while they were investigated.

As I said if the OP reports this woman as supposedly claiming to be living alone when she is in fact living with a partner then the DWP will look at her claim. If she is claiming to be with a partner then no cheating/offence is taking place is it? So no need for an investigation. If she is claiming to be single then yes they will look into it

Not sure what is difficult to understand about that

@Inebriati the link you posted says "your benefits MAY be stopped while we investigate". So no, not definitely stopped

But how do you know such personal details as exactly what she claims? How do you know she hasn't declared having a partner? Or what about if she won a tidy sum on the lotto (not the big prize but a couple of thousand pounds), or she inherited some money, or that she has a friend who does her hair and nails in exchange for some other service or her mum or sister pays for the weekly appointments because they make her feel better and help with her outlook? Unless you are ticking the boxes with her while she makes the claim or have access to her bank details you have no idea. Real benefit fraud must be caught out but honestly we have to stop dissecting every detail of people's lives because they are on benefits, like they are not human and must live undignified crappy lives because the government lets companies get away with slave wages. You not being able to afford things is not her fault, the real issue is real wages are the lowest they have ever been in 30/40 years and you dont solve the issue by making people on benefits poorer but by increasing wages for people in work so that work pays.

I personally know of two women who were maliciously reported. Both lived in our street. Both had benefits stopped pending. One actually ended up fucking homeless with two kids in a BB.
Stop telling people to report because nothing will happen.

At least take responsibility for the action, sure report but do it knowing you will cause a shit storm and are risking the stability of the family.
Regardless of they are committing fraud.
weasels

If she is claiming to be with a partner then no cheating/offence is taking place is it? So no need for an investigation. If she is claiming to be single then yes they will look into it

Not sure what is difficult to understand about that

I understand the point you are making. Report her, it will be checked. If she's cheating it's her problem and she faces the consequences. If she's not cheating everything's OK. It's a simple point. It's not difficult to understand.

The problem isn't in understanding it. The problem is it is fundamentally flawed. It relies on the idea that the state is cuddly, benign, out to play fair and will look after you if only you work hard enough. The reality, especially where the DWP is concerned, is that the state is far from benign, or indeed fair. They may or may not stop benefits whilst you're investigated - and they will investigate. Simply checking what she's claiming could take them weeks. Do you want to risk that? And all you do is add to the idea that it's a small number of fraudsters who are a big problem. It's a magician's trick - it's distraction. The fraudsters are wrong, yes. But they are a very, very small part of the problem, which is tax evasion and avoidance and the government shirking its duties to the most vulnerable in society.

Unless you have spent time complaining to HMRC about big business tax avoidance schemes you are being a massive hypocrite and vv unreasonable.

@Vanhi my point is why would they waste time investigating if it were obvious she is not cheating?

OP reports and says the woman is claiming benefits as a single person living on her own but in fact her partner lives with her. DWP look at her file and see she is claiming as living with a partner so is not cheating. What is there for them to investigate?

I saw handcrafted, beribboned "crystal dummies" as suggested as shower gifts. On etsy. They clamp onto prams, not expensive.

If I came on here with pictures of my wonderful lifestyle and then added that I'm living this wonderful life because I've stolen the money off a disabled/elderly/ lone parent would you all find that acceptable??? Surely benefit cheats are doing exactly that, stealing from those who really need it IF this person is cheating the system YADNBU but they will be able to conduct their own enquiries incl checking fb. I think the job centre have a fraud option on their phone.

Wow, I am so surprised by the number of people saying stay out of it... Perhaps they are also non tax payers? You can report anonomously to your local Council's Benefit team. I work at a Council and it really makes me sick sometimes how many people play the system and waltz into the offices done up to the nines. You can report 'suspected fraud' and let the professionals do any necessary digging.

I work at a Council and it really makes me sick sometimes how many people play the system and waltz into the offices done up to the nines.

Yeah, these pesky people should know their place and wear their joggers eh

And you are part of the problem Themorningsun could you explain exactly how poor someone should look before being able to access council help?

If I came on here with pictures of my wonderful lifestyle and then added that I'm living this wonderful life because I've stolen the money off a disabled/elderly/ lone parent would you all find that acceptable??? Surely benefit cheats are doing exactly that, stealing from those who really need it

There is a lot of mis understanding in this area.

What one person claims has ZERO bearing on the next person and there is not a point where the DWP stop people claiming because too many people are.

People who commit benefit fraud are not taking from other people's benefits. Bob still gets his full allowance despite Fred next doors fraudulent claim. Bob and Fred and Bill all claim but the DWP allow John to put in a main as well.

Now this has no bearing on my opinion of benefit fraud and how it should be tackled, but the lack of understanding is huge.

I think some people on here really have no clue. Loads of women claim as single mums when they are not, me and my sister were just talking about it the other day and she said lots of her friends won’t get married as they will lose their benefits!

You don't actually know if she's stealing money from the benefits or not though I think she should report her if she thinks that's what's happening. I do feel there is more to this post though, the fact you check her fb page and judge her parenting and kids (even though she has stated this woman had the nerve to buy a new pram for the baby she is expecting how dare she!) And getting makeup done and going out, which alot of people do. Can get nails and makeup done from someone on fb 20 quid all in not exactly expensive. She's not reporting her because it's benefit fraud its because she's jealous, so is her mutual friend. Report her if it makes u sleep easier, u still may not be able to afford nice things n u may still feel jealous and bitter but end of day benefit fraud is benefit fraud and it is a crime. I'm glad I don't use fb to be judged over a few photos. Gossiped about behind my back and basically called a shit mum for treating myself. Thousands of mums get nails lashes hair go out on a weekend doesn't mean they all committing benefit fraud or are all bad parents does it. Fb is full of people saying look at my nice life but most of it is bullshit. U should inbox her n ask her about her benefits n tell her she's a shit mum be honest n own it. Then maybe she will see what ur saying stop going out stop treating herself stop buying the new baby New clothes and u may find some peace. Not her fault u struggle financially, get a better job maybe

I think some people on here really have no clue.

Loads of women claim as single mums when they are not, me and my sister were just talking about it the other day and she said lots of her friends won’t get married as they will lose their benefits

It sounds like you are the one with no clue.

Benefits are not based on marriage.

*It sounds like you are the one with no clue.

Benefits are not based on marriage.*

I’m only repeating what my sister said about her friends, a few of them are “lone parents”

I’m only repeating what my sister said about her friends, a few of them are “lone parents”

Then she has no clue.

Being married isn't what makes you a couple.

Sorry that wasn't very clear - I work at a Council and know of local people claiming things they shouldn't be but you have no proof it's a slap in the face. I don't see what is wrong with reporting it and it being investigated properly. If everyone ignores it the problem gets worse and people will do it more and more. There are ALWAYS genuine cases, I see them too and I wouldn't immediately deem someone a fraudster for looking nice but the more people claiming poverty I see who have hair extensions and false nails - pretty sure the priorities are somewhat skewed.

If you know this is true, not just second or third hand then yes, she is not entitled to it, and stigmatises those you do need it and are entitled to any form of help