To contemplate reporting someone for possible benefit fraud? WWYD?

[WWYDhey]

So there’s this girl I know. Not a close friend but someone I know and would say hi to in the street. We are Facebook friends. I know a bit about her through mutual friends.

She is claiming as a single parent of two kids but her boyfriend lives with her. Full time. They have actually just become engaged and she is pregnant. He has 3 kids to someone else with which he sees 2 of them every other week.

He is ‘unemployed’ but I believe he works full time for cash in hand. (Some kind of joinery or building work)

What has made me consider reporting her (if that’s something you can even do??) is that she spends all her ‘free’ money on weekly hair up appointments, professional make up done. New nails etc (we all know this as she documents everything on Facebook) always out at restaurants and nights out. Almost like she is bragging.
Doesn’t look like she spends much on her kids. They always look a bit scruffy and bored in her photos. (Think tops that look too small or worn out)

And now that she’s pregnant she’s uploading loads of expensive purchases for the baby (ted baker everything, massive pram ordained in Jewell’s)

Now I know some of the replies I will get here will be along the lines of ‘what’s it got to do with you how she spends her money’

• well yes it has nothing to do with me but it is really irritating that I work full time with kids and pay a lot in tax and have to scrimp and save. I don’t get all of the luxuries she does. Yet ina round about way I contribute to it.

‘How do you know she’s on benefits’ our mutual friend knows she is for certain. Plus she works 18 hours per week in a cafe so it’s not rocket science.

So would you report someone claiming as a single parent when she isn’t?

YABU- Dont report her and don’t give it another thought

YANBU- Do report her

If so how would you report anonymously?

87 per cent of those reported are innocent according to a FOI request in 2018. Most were malicious incorrect allegations.

Of course tax evasion doesn’t justify benefit fraud.

However, reporting someone for benefit fraud when you have no in-depth knowledge of their situation is just an awful idea, and the more people accept it as a reasonable action, the more genuine people will be sanctioned for months on end waiting for an investigation when they’ve done nothing wrong.

report your concerns - if they are unfounded, there won't be any action against her.

So if you report this pregnant mother of two - will that get you a tax rebate? She is still a single parent as who knows if she will end up marrying her boyfriend or not, or how much he contributes to her household and children's upbringing.

report your concerns - if they are unfounded, there won't be any action against her.

This isn't true. Women can have their benefits stopped while they 'investigate'. There isn't any time limit on how long it can take them.

Thanks @Inebriati

OP, you need to be very sure of your facts.

87 per cent of those reported are innocent according to a FOI request in 2018. Most were malicious incorrect allegations.

Doesn't surprise me

I'm also totally sick of dwp workers plain LYING not just on this subject but on so many things.

People DO Get their claims "suspended" pending investigation even if they've not done a damn thing wrong!

@Graphista They do indeed, here is a quote from an article I have just seen.

"I am seriously ill and disabled but at one stage was still working. Then I took a turn for the worse and became totally bedbound. Thus the only people coming and going were my carers.
I was reported to the DWP for housing benefit fraud as I "no longer lived at my address". My housing benefit was suspended with immediate effect.
Despite the allegation being so ludicrous and all my medical evidence etc, this took a full 9 months to sort out during which I was threatened with court action. You can imagine the effect the stress had on my already precarious health.
And I was lucky. I was able to borrow enough money so that I was not evicted. I was able to pay it back when I was finally cleared of all wrongdoing and backpaid the amounts due.

I am now completely paranoid of being reported. This extends to my disability. For instance I am an electric wheelchair user but am still, for now, able to take about 5 steps.
I am terrified of doing even that in public for fear of some ignorant person reporting me for fraud yet again. So I remain seated at all times.

In fact, I hardly dare more my legs. I got yelled at in a shop once by a complete stranger: "I saw you move your leg".
I told them I wasn’t paralyzed, but to no avail. They swore at me. As far as they were concerned I was a fraudster (even though they didn’t even know whether I was in fact claiming benefits). I wondered for days afterwards whether I was going to be reported and have my benefits stopped."

So all those saying NO HARM DONE are wrong. People could lose their home, their kids will be starving. Please be 100% sure (and then check again) before reporting and destroying someone's already hard life.

Report her.

'If she is committing fraud it will be stopped. If you have got your facts wrong then nothing changes and no harm done.'

Not true. Even the suspicion of fraud can cause people to have their benefits stopped while the investigation is carried out, which for someone who already has very little can have very serious consequences. It's not fair, but it happens.

If the OP has strong reasons to suspect benefit fraud, then OK, report it; but it sounds very gossip-based.

One time I was reported it was because I had a partner living with me, going out every day to work. It was actually teenage DS going to college.

I had to prove to the DSS, Housing Benefit and Council Tax that he existed, going back 8 years. I was screamed at on the phone by a completely unhinged woman.

I'd be wary reporting on a hunch rather than hard facts as its likely the claiments would be sanctioned & their benefits stopped while its investigated which could take a long time. How would they then pay the bills & if rent ends up in arrears they could then be evicted?

If convicted it would also have hard repercussions on the kids & her ability to work in future with a criminal record. Partner may well have pressured to move in if out of work himself and unlikely to face same consequences as her.

Tbh what people post on social media is the image wish to portray not reality & its easy to make wrong assumptions about peoples lives.

Absolutely @longtimelurkerhelen.
Paedos Rapists and child killers are innocent until proven guilty.
Claimants are guilty until proven innocent

Mind your own business and get on with your life. I can sense you are jealous of the lifestyle she’s leading and I take it you want to take that away. Leave people alone and concentrate on you and your children

Claimants are guilty until proven innocent

This is a legal fact, not hyperbole. You are the one that has to prove your innocence.

The issue here is that you really don’t seem to have any actual facts. A woman you don’t actually know posts stuff on Facebook and you assume benefit fraud.

Nails round here (Outer London) cost about a fiver for a paint and polish - maybe £15 for acrylics. Hair up is £10. So say every two weeks - that’s not a huge cost.

Pram could be bought be someone, second hand or on credit.

I’m being absolutely genuine when I say -unfollow her. It’s obviously stressing you out looking at her posts.

Maybe they should get rid of the anonymity for reporting, and if the allegations are unfounded the reporter pays for the investigation. That way they would make sure their suspicions were correct. Also the DWP wouldn't waste millions investigating when 87% are innocent.

But it would be much better not to divide and conquer in the first place and have people looking at their neighbours with envy and judging them. This country could be a better and kinder place.

I would report her. I never get the “keep out of it” responses on these threads, and then questioning the OP, who actually knows the person, about her suspicions and dreaming up unlikely alternative scenarios.

OP I’d just report her. If she’s doing nothing wrong then nothing will happen and if she is she deserves to be caught/prosecuted. Benefit fraud is stealing from us all.

You’re being very judgemental of her lifestyle and In my experience when I’ve been judgemental I would have been better off worrying about my own life and own issues.

Is it going to change your life? No. Keep out of it. All you will do is give them less money not help her (bored, scruffy) kids or yourself. Concentrate on your kids and your finances. People always get their comeuppance...

I don't see why benefits would automatically be stopped while investigations take place. If someone is reported for claiming to be living on their own when they are actually with someone surely the benefits office only have to look at the claimant and if they are claiming to be a couple then no further action needs to be taken.

To be honest I wouldn't report her as you dont know what s true or a rumour. Even if she s innocent her benefits will be stopped or sanctioned while a LONG investigation takes place.
Do nothing. If she s guilty DWP will hear of it, like potential employers, they could look at Facebook. Or they could have her on their radar due to the pregnancy and will watch her house for a man living there/ if he pays for broadband etc. It s not hard to trace these things.
But definitely unfollow her on FB. Remove the temptation/ trigger to your anger.
By the way nails are pretty cheap, my dd has a friend who does it from home for £15.
Salons arent expensive either.
I m glad FB wasnt around when my dc were little. They invariably ended up looking scruffy climbing on things in the park and dropping ice lollies on t shirts.
We have some lovely pics of dd age 3 covered in ice cream! Some kids just get grubby easily.

Not your circus, not your monkeys. You sound really judgemental as well- maybe she’s not about performance parenting on social media. Fraud is wrong but she’ll likely get caught by the dwp eventually if so. You should stay out of it

Question for those who agree with stopping benefits while a person suspected of benefit fraud is investigated (because that is what happens).

I'm generalising because I am genuinely curious if people are aware how much more it costs to investigate, sanction if appropriate and then support person in the aftermath of having a low income stopped entirely?

If someone accrues rent arrears, and is then evicted, they have to be housed, especially if they have children and nowhere else to go. If they are placed in temporary accomodation, it will usually cost several hundred pounds more a month from the LA than the defaulted rent. If it is hostel style, living conditions will be cramped and often squalid. The children may become unwell and malnourished from lack of proper cooking facilities. They may fall behind at school and indeed slide towards repeating a cycle of poverty. Attendance may be poor due to sickness or lack of resources ie being able to travel to school easily The parent may become ill and require more medical attention than necessary. They may sadly respond to the stress of their situation in unhealthy ways. Helping them with that costs money. Perhaps the parent commits another crime in desperation - and is imprisoned. Tot up the costs of the court case, and possible incarceration, or the administration of fines that cannot be paid. perhaps the children will have to go into foster care That costs the public purse a fair bit too, never mind the trauma inflicted on the children.

I think what I'm trying to get at in the grand scheme of things, while benefit fraud is indeed a crime, the amounts garnered are no longer life changing, and it costs far more to mop up the aftermath of sudden financial catastrophe than the benefits that they receive. Yes some people make bad choices - repeatedly - but I'd far rather have them kept at a level where they are relatively stable and less likely to make even worse poor choices such as mugging little old ladies for their next fix.

I say this as someone who speaks regularly to several of our local homeless / hostel housed. Most stories begin with "Well we were just about managing and then I lost my benefits....." Relationships break down, desperation sets in, mental health problems can develop into addiction, and voila, the poverty industry gains another client.

Generally, we reap what we sow in life, and if someone gets caught out by the system because they are abusing it, that's life, with the same consequences as above. If the system makes more errors than fraud happens, the system needs auditing. UC has left quite a few of my "naice" friends on the back foot because even though they are working, errors have been made and budgeting becomes a distant dream. They have ended up in debt and struggling, when they were told working would pay because they were assured UC would top them up while they are not in a position to work full time due to caring responsibilities, and it didn't happen consistently enough to keep things stable.

The woman in the OP - I have no idea. But I would seriously think twice about reporting because it won't make anything better for anyone else who claims - it isn't fraud that keeps the benefits payments low, it is to put people off claiming and help them try to be self-sufficient - which is great when the economy isn't tanking, the cost of living isn't rising faster and higher than wages, and when employment isn't often precarious.

Just my five pennorth.

How do you know she doesn't do fun stuff woth her children. To be honest if you looked through my social media you would think the same. Purely because I do not post pics of my children.

We do a day out most weeks and lots of trips to soft play/park