to think that the NHS is really quite shit and that not everyone who works in it is an underpaid hero?

[Adenosine]

There is a strange British preoccupation with the NHS which I think prevents honest public dialogue about its many shortcomings. At the time it was set up it was innovative, but now there are many other universal healthcare systems most of which are better than the NHS and many of which cost less money.

It's ranked low globally and really quite shit yet few people dare criticise or. AIBU to think that we really need to be far more critical?

don’t tell me a teaching assistant has accountability and responsibility for sick patients and their lives. So yes we are underpaid.

Surely, they have responsibility and accountability for the lives of children, and in some cases those with complex learning difficulties and/or medical conditions.

I believe at times, they are left to look after a class of children in the absence of a teacher? Young children can do stupid things, if not supervised properly?

@fablaura

“I always think people who slate the NHS are the ones who have never been very very ill. When you are near death's door, you see a different side to it”

On the contrary, I think those that fete the nhs have usually had little contact with it, and haven’t experienced serious ill health. A relative of mine thinks the nhs is sacred - she’s never even spent overnight in hospital! Never had an accident bad enough to warrant medical care, never been seriously ill and popped her children out with ease, her kids have similarly enjoyed good health and no serious accidents so far. She has zero understanding of the issues for those needing prolonged or serious emergency support. Whenever any of us that have had issues try to explain the realities to her she shuts down the conversation! She’s now a pensioner and STARTING to deteriorate as everyone who ages does, when she does start needing more care and she can’t afford to go private I think she’s in for a hell of a shock!

Their experience is positive precisely because they haven’t had to deal with the nhs constantly for chronic ill health.

Myself and several loved ones being repeatedly dismissed, stonewalled, misdx, having long term carefully assessed and trialled prescriptions and treatments decided on by specialists/consultants changed on a whim/to save money by gps is what has informed my opinion.

I’ve been managing at least 3 chronic physical conditions and serious mental illness for almost 15 years. 1 of those for over 30 years.

I’ve been “near death” on at least half a dozen occasions, dd (almost 19) thrice already and while I’m grateful for the treatment received at the times of crisis where my life was saved. Some of those situations were BECAUSE We’d not been dx & treated correctly in the first place!! Not just my assessment but that of the medics that provided the life saving treatment. On 1 occasion they were so appalled they reported the gp concerned themselves!

As for respect - respect is earned, it’s not bestowed automatically. I certainly don’t think respect is owed to the several drs & nurses who completely dismissed my CORRECT self dx on several occasions (not just the endo) even to the point of laughing at me and telling me point blank I was wrong.

Not once received an explanation let alone an apology either!

@oliversmumsarmy type 2 does have a genetic predisposition element, type 1 doesn’t always have a genetic cause, certain infections can trigger it and even trauma.

There has to be more PUBLIC accountability.

One gp i had a nightmare with, I've moved around a lot due to being a military dependent for over 30 years and then a few more moves after that, so I was new to the area, when I started to get to know people in the area I learned he had a terrible reputation, numerous complaints against him but because it couldn't be definitively proven his actions were directly harmful he was still practicing! He was literally a liability! But the authorities couldn't get rid!

The standards for dismissal are too high in my opinion and the standards for good practice, good staff too low.

Teaching assistants are not paid £24k a year.

Re the point about being critically ill, it was this that finally made me realise how terrible the NHS can be. I had kind of taken as read that no one can get a GP appointment, non urgent matters are dealt with slowly, conditions that have little impact on life aren't dealt with at all, but I did always assume that when the shit hit the fan and I was facing death incidentally while in agonising pain that the health system which was the envy of the world would come through. Nope. Wrong again. Instead I encountered the same incompetence, the same sullen hostility, the same lack of basic fucking human decency or even semi functioning capacity that I have ever encountered when dealing with the NHS. Same, same old.

Maybe staff are exhausted because they haven’t eaten lunch and are going to stay late again. maybe better staff would be recruited if working conditions were better.

There is a lack of GPs and nurses currently. How can we train, recruit and retain good ones? Can we support the poorly performing ones to do better?

I would suggest that understaffing and high bed occupancy can cause performance issues and wastage. Also poor staff - but what happens if there are not many staff to start with? How much money will it cost?

Maybe not as exhausted as a patient left to puke, scream and cry on a chair in a waiting room for four hours though, eh? While they discussed their weekend social plans and what was on telly the night before.

Don't even fucking go there. Seriously.

I always think people who slate the NHS are the ones who have never been very very ill. When you are near death's door, you see a different side to it - one that is truly amazing

Actually I think the opposite is true.

They let Dp get to a point where he was 48 hours from death, couldn’t walk unaided and diagnosed him with terminal cancer.

He is only alive today because we had the money to pay for everything.

The NHS refused him an operation that would buy him more time.

We paid.

They refused to treat him because in their eyes there is little point because he has a terminal prognosis.

I think they are only too happy to put him on a pathway for death.

The real kicker is he is back at work propping up the very institution that wont treat him save for the odd bag of saline and a few antibiotics.

Anything to do with his cancer they don’t want to know.

The last time he was in hospital (because of an infection so they were quite happy to give him a bag of saline and some antibiotics.

It was a frightening experience.

A dr was chatting in the corridor to the adult children of one of the guys on the ward.
They were talking about not doing anything if their dad had another problem.
They didn’t tell the father

Their dad died the night after screaming for help and no one came

Nurses were on the floor having a massive fight.

I really wouldn’t describe it as Amazing.

That is just one incident I have a whole catalogue of errors and mid or non diagnosis.

And don’t think you can sue them for pain and suffering caused by their incompetence because guess what......They seem to have lost your file.

YANBU
NHS hospitals are understaffed, old, under resourced. Have lived in three European countries with much better universal healthcare on all levels. Brits like to believe the old myth that the NHS is the best system in the world, but it really isn’t.

I think it’s still pretty good for acute emergency care- but most care is not acute and a lot of care is about recognising illness before it gets to the point of being an emergency. NHS 24 is absolutely shit at recognising potentially serious signs and symptoms over the phone.

Staffing levels could be improved by returning nurses from endless managerial posts to actual clinical work.
And creating structured pathways for both Doctors and Nurses who’ve taken a career break to return to work.

There may be something for nurses, but there certainly isn’t for Doctors. It’s a complete waste of intelligent people who could retrain, perhaps in a limited role - say an asthma or ADHD clinic, and work in the NHS. Thereby freeing up Consultant time for more complex cases.

I think many of the UK population don't actually know what good modern healthcare looks like. The NHS is not very good, it has shocking cancer survival rates amongst various other things. It is inefficient and the bar is set very low as in most public services and I say that as someone who works frontline in public services. Same as a lot of schools that are feted as outstanding are simply adequate at best but most of the population have no idea what a truly outstanding school/education can really look like as they have never been exposed to it.

But if you've never experienced healthcare outside the NHS, then you don't know any better, so are perhaps more inclined to believe the monstrous fib that "the NHS is the envy of the world".

Er, sorry, it's only the envy of people from very poor countries where all healthcare has to be paid for. Most Americans in full time employment with Blue Cross/Blue Shield or a good HMO package would prefer that.

The bulk of healthcare is not required for those in full time employment. It is in the elderly, those with chronic illnesses and disability who may be prevented from working due to their conditions. I guess you’d just have to make sure the insurance companies don’t just choose to cover the healthy working population who are less likely to claim.

It’s children too. We consume healthcare more in the first and last ten years of our lives. The years when there’s zero chance of having a job with health insurance.

To contrast the NHS with another European country:

DH went to GP yesterday morning. GP rang hospital and got DH an appt yesterday afternoon for a CT scan. Had scan, left with the results in his hand. Contrast that with the NHS where he'd probably still be waiting for the GP appt, then a wait for a letter with the scan appointment date (which might not have been convenient anyway), then a several week week wait for the scan to be reported on and the results to go to the GP, then another wait to get the results from the GP.

We could have a better system, but we're going to have to put an awful lot more in to get it.

The NHS is really NOT the envy of the world. It's cheap and it shows.

There is an equation here, and I won't be the person who delineates its parameters, about the value of a person who contributes to the social/medical community (via ie an insurance pool) and those who only want to benefit from it. There are always more people willing to take than to contribute.

The NHS is really NOT the envy of the world. It's cheap and it shows. That really depends on how wealthy you are!

Are you saying that the wealthy are the only ones to benefit from the NHS.

We have to pay for anything that involves actually curing you.

Er, sorry, it's only the envy of people from very poor countries where all healthcare has to be paid for My ds had a stomach condition. In American - he'd have endoscopies every month and liquid food. Not here though thankfully - we saw a consultant - privately who felt that the intervention in America was not evidence based - the outcome was not any better and my dc was able to live amore normal life. More is not better..

Ц джт why do people seem to think only the uk and usa systems exist? You know the rest of the world exists too? The nhs is shit. Utter shit. Really really bad but because its free everyone is shit scares to lose it so defends it to the hilt. The nhs is shit and needs a mass overhaul. Hugly.

GeePipe You always have private as an option - or is that shit too?

I'm so, so thankful to the NHS and always will be. They've saved my life three times

1. When I was born (I was very poorly)
2. When I had my first ectopic pregnancy
3. When I had my second ectopic pregnancy

In my experience, they've even faultless and fantastic. We should be so lucky to be honest! We don't get this privilege in many other countries. My doctors have been superb as well and have always successfully treated my family and I and saved my husbands life as well when he was struck down with pneumonia and they immediately sent him to the hospital.

I think if you're not happy with it, then by all means pay for private healthcare. It's your health and your money after all.

I think the OP was trying to say that there should an attitude shift. Most of us worry about othering a GP and being a bother in hospital. The NHS is not strictly free it is funded by taxpayers and we should own that and complain strenuously when necessary they and massive cash injection would work wonders. Unfortunately when you have a loved on in hospital you don’t want to complain in case they are treated differently. I used to think everyone could pay a small tariff each year but I think if we start charging that will be the end. Look at the pension age etc now that’s been accepted who know what age it will end up at. It’s still a great thing to be seen day or night with no worries of insurance firms or money upfront. Vulnerable people could not afford top of the line insurance and from what I read many Americans struggle. The comedian from catastrophe has an interview where he had an accident as a young man the insurance co dropped him and he wa left with massive bills, by contrast the nhs nursed his sick child to the end. It can be good it can be bad but maybe we do need to start speaking up.

All my working life, 50 years of it I have worked for the NHS
I saw it at it's best in the early days of my work.That was when GPs did home visits, hospital patients remained in hospital until they were well enough to go home.Certain patients after long term illnesses went to convalescent homes before returning home to make sure they had made a full recovery.Elderly people did not have to sell their homes to provide for their long term care, all of it was NHS funded.
My life was saved by the NHS on a number of occasions.Twice in childbirth by EMCS, and my two now grown up children are only here today because of it.My husband had life saving heart surgery on the NHS.My prematurely born granddaughter owes her life to it.I now suffer from emphysema and have had a few very scary moments struggling for breath for which I received emergency treatment.
Now I notice a lot of changes.My husband is now permanently disabled and almost housebound, today I had a fight with GP's receptionist to get the doctor to come out to see him.It was not a life threatening scene but he was unable to go out and needed pain killers prescribing.I fully acknowledge the immediate attention he has received in emergencies for his on going heart condition and am grateful for that.
What has happened to it? Patients are discharged from hospital far too early and very often have to return in a matter of days.The long waiting in A and E, often on a trolley with just a thin sheet over them.My GP now has a three week waiting list for an appointment, so no wonder people go to A and E with trivial conditions.I know we now have walk in centres but where I live they close at 9 pm, and some have been closed all together.
I still think we are very privileged by having an NHS,my DH worked abroad in his younger life and remembers how he dreaded taking ill in foreign countries because of the cost of treatment.But for how long will the NHS exist?.

/

I agree they sent my dad home too early numerous times for the bed. Even the ambulance drivers quipped they would see us soon. The last time he thought the Red Cross had driven him home he was delusional. I called hospital they
Said it would calm down but it didn’t irone infection back in next day. There is such a bed shortage that people get discharged way too early. I sent my dad in with a letter detailing all this and complaining they subsequently keep him he there convalescing for 4 weeks in elderly care.