Or is this set-up unsustainable and shit?

[AnnaHorribilis]

I’m having yet another thoroughly miserable day (it’s becoming an almost daily occurrence now) and I’d just like a reality check — is this a totally crap and unsustainable situation or am I just in need of a grip? Wondering if this could be PND, even?

DH and I have 3 young children: 4, 2 and 9 months.

My husband works full-time; I am a SAHM by day but WFH (web-related) in the evenings. I earn roughly half what he does, if that’s relevant.

The 4yo goes to a local preschool for her 15 funded hours a week. The younger two are with me full-time. The 9mo is still breastfed and will not be put down for more than 5 mins, and will only sleep on me, day and night.

So, after the older two go to bed, I feed the baby with my laptop balanced on my knees behind her, and work like that from about 8-12. She’s ill and teething at the moment so not settling at all, but I have to just keep swapping sides and carry on because she won’t settle otherwise and I have deadlines to meet.

When I’m too tired to work any more, I close the laptop, slide down a bit on the sofa and sleep half sitting all night, with constant wake-ups from the baby.

DH sleeps in the bed upstairs, usually also working late, and if the older two wake up early or in the middle of the night, they go in with him.

I do all the housework, shopping, and any “life admin” (sorry, I know MN hates that term but think birthday/Xmas cards and presents, bills, insurance, tax, appointments, everything). After previous outbursts about this (from me), DH now does most of the washing up in the morning before he goes to work, leaving the dirtiest pans etc. as he washes cleanest-dirtiest and they won’t all fit on the drying rack 🙄

So my day is basically: get up with the baby; get all three children bathed and dressed; put wash on; make breakfast for everyone; walk eldest to school for 9; come back and look after two or three preschoolers all day as well as any chores that need doing; make dinner for 6 so we can all eat together when DH gets in; bedtime routine; work with fussy baby on top of me; sleep/not sleep sitting up all night; repeat.

Is this normal/expected when kids are this age? I just feel like there’s absolutely NO fun or downtime in my life at the moment.

I’m also not enjoying my children at all. I’m knackered and bad-tempered almost all the time and it feels like they’re always complaining, bickering, crying, making mess, demanding things, etc. etc. etc. I know they’re not, and they’re actually lovely children who I love to bits, but I’m just so worn down and snowed under with everything I’ve got to do.

I feel like a totally crap parent at the moment. I snap at them and feel awful for it, but my temper seems to be getting shorter and shorter by the day. I feel on-edge, stressed out, angry and tearful a lot of the time.

Sorry that was so long! 😭 Basically AIBU to be feeling this way, does this sound like too much to cope with to you or am I just not resilient enough?

It's completely untenable and if you all really need your income you must take your health and sustainability into account immediately. Your DH should be doing all domestic work including the baby while you work, 1 full day per weekend and at least 2 evenings. He should make sure you have 2 super solid nights of sleep each week and at least mediocre sleep the other nights , by sharing the night waking load. Cut every corner you possibly can, disposable nappies, bathing once or twice a week not daily, frozen food batch cooked, slow cooker set in morning, whatever it takes. If you crash out, it's no good for any of them.

The family business thing sounds awful low pay high hours distant promises that needs sorting too. It’s untenable and a serious chat and he needs to be firmer here

You both have to stop being passive so much here needs sorting and with some effort could be you just don’t seem to want to

Free hours of childcare need looking at for the 4 year old and 2 year old

Structure for naps for the 2 and baby as well

Getting a routine and everything in place will be tough but so worth it

You both have to stop being passive so much here needs sorting and with some effort could be you just don’t seem to want to

That's unnecessarily harsh. The OP is exhausted and overwhelmed and her DH sounds like he's got a lot on too. It's not surprising they've taken the path of least resistance. They need some encouragement and tips to push over a few humps to try and pull some time and sanity back, not a bollocking as though they haven't been trying hard enough.

I have a little insight into your situation as am also a SAHM with a WFH job. I have only two kids, one at school and a 2 year old, with a husband who's out of the house 7-7. My 2 year old sleeps all night long and I have a very similar work pattern to you during busy times at work - kids all day and work 8-12ish. So basically I have it easier than you in terms of sleep and number of children, and I'm still tired and miserable a lot of the time! No wonder you are struggling.

For the daytime naps, these were the only ways I could get my clingy bf baby to sleep off me in the daytime:

1. Taking him out in the buggy for a walk till he dropped off, then wheeling him back in the house - maybe you could do this when taking your 4 year old to preschool if it’s in walking distance? Two year old on buggy board.

1. In the sling - still sleeping on me but at least my hands were free. Sometimes I could even gently put him down asleep somewhere flat and safe still in the sling, as it was still warm from me.

Don’t know whether these might be options to help you get the daytime naps longer and without you having to be sat down under a baby! Great that your dh has agreed to start doing a day at the weekend.

Are there any family members who can help out? What’s the point of him slogging his guts out for them if nobody else pitches in to help him.

To be fair to the DH, the OP hasn’t said how much the older two wake in the night for him to deal with. It won’t be as much as the baby does but it might be quite a lot:

But him taking them out for the day at the weekend is a start.

My top tip for sleep training is that you don’t have to do it in the middle of the night. Putting baby to sleep in a cot at the beginning of the night and leaving them there (with frequent reassurances) until they sleep but cuddling as much as necessary if they wake in the middle of the night is a much more sustainable approach because you’re not having to do the rough bit at 3am when you’re on your knees. Combined with night weaning there’s a decent chance that it will revolutionise your life.

You don’t say what your DH does. Assuming he’s not a lorry driver or anything else safety critical then he should absolutely do the occasional night with the baby. His family presumably won’t sack him if he has the occasional sub-par day because he’s knackered.

In tactical terms, available family are much more likely to pitch in if they see DH dead on his feet from tiredness than if they’re just told that DIL is finding life tough.

Have a look at kit and kin nappies as they're eco friendly and often on offer in boots, as you say could go towards cutting some slack in the routine.

Can you or DH get time once a week to batch cook / make a big lasagne or stew, section it and freeze it, DH can then sort when he comes home in the evening with little fuss. Eventually you can tag team for one to do dinner whilst the other does bedtime. Could be worth feeding the kids a little earlier so bedtime can start earlier too, then you can both tackle the plan with baby.

If you did put the eldest in for 30 hrs, it would help keep the peace at home fur baby to sleep. I know you want to keep them close as long as you can but it's s fine balance with the babies (and your) needs too. 4 yr old would probably love it :)

Pump even one bottle a day for DH to do in the evening. This would go towards getting baby physically off you. If you pump in the morning your milk is at its creamiest, so feeding it at night will help keep baby fuller.

Sleep begets sleep in babies, deff work on more sleep in the day and getting into the cot. Also you could give baby some 'playtime' In the cot so s/he becomes familiar with the space each day, 10 mins or so.

Good luck..❤️

Second the dummy suggestion. They're a beast to give up down the line but also absolute sanity savers in situations like these.

OP do you have a closed garden or somewhere safe that baby could take naps in outside in the pram? Babies sleep better outside anyway and it'll be quieter if your children are inside making a racket. You can keep the window cracked so you'll hear if baby wakes, or put a battery driven monitor in the pram. Both of my babies slept on the veranda for naps and it worked out very well for my youngest when her brother was running riot in the house at nap time.

You're not a terrible mother or a terrible person. You're a woman doing the best she can in an untennable situation. DH needs to step up and do more, take the kids out alone, help you train baby to be less velcro. It WILL get better.

Good grief! It’s A wonder you’re not in your knees!!

I’m glad you’ve spoken to DH & agreed on some ways forward (whether they happen or not seems to be anyone’s guess!) but what did you discuss/agree about YOU sleeping in the bed & him taking over the baby at night?

I understand about the ‘family business’ but DH needs to understand that HE has a family now that HE needs to be a) supporting and b) be there for earning a pittance & being at work so much isn’t on. If the business isn’t paying the going wage for the position, it needs to it he needs to look for a different job. I exoect you’ve had that conversation, but you need to have it again. YOU and the CHILDREN are suffering because he’s choosing to prop up the business.

You both need to work on DC3 sleeping independently. DH needs to pull his weight with that, it’s easier for him as he won’t smell of milk

You have amazing stamina but that sounds totally unsustainable and you will burn out.

I don't think feeling like your not enjoying your kids indicates PND in your situation. I think anyone would struggle not to get down and irritable juggling all that.

Oh OP. Sending so much sympathy. I could have written at least some of your post, and I'm bloody miserable and knackered... and my life sounds a damn sight easier than yours in all honesty.

I have two DC (3y and 10 months) and the baby is a dreadful sleeper. We co-sleep and I go to bed when she does because if I move away (after feeding her to sleep) she wakes up. So consequently I feel like I never see my husband and our marriage isn't in great shape at all. Baby wakes hourly and then for the last half of the night has to be held to stay asleep. It's awfully tough. All naps are also in my arms (or in the sling if my older DC is with me).
I'm also still breastfeeding (and don't plan to stop). I breastfed my eldest until 2+ (and still fed at night once or twice) but DC1 was a MUCH better sleeper than this baby so I was functioning pretty well.

I'm lucky that I am still on maternity leave and my eldest is at preschool three days a week. But my mental state is still in tatters and I am totally touched out, tired, bad tempered... so I can only imagine how you feel.

I can totally relate to not having the energy to make a change too.

We finally decided to sleep train DD and a couple of days before we planned to start she got a bloody cold. So we have had to postpone. I'm worrying about it anyway (the crying) and putting it off is just making that worse.

Good luck with making changes OP. I hope you can get some quality of life back and start feeling more human soon. I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone!

Get the two year old and four year old into the same childcare facility. It’s short term, take the financial hit. Having them out of the house will help you establish a proper sleep routine for the baby during the day, which has flow on effects into what happens at night. Wish you luck.

Thank you so much everyone, good luck to all of you too ❤️

Baby has now been diagnosed with bronchiolitis so I’m keeping her close for now, but once she’s better we’ll certainly be trying to tackle the sleep as a priority.

My mum had the 2yo this afternoon (in a disposable!) as she had a day off, I’ve had a sofa day with poorly baby and even got a bit of work done. Feel 100 times better even just for the sake of a few hours’ peace!

What a great update Op (apart from the broncholitis!)

We find in our house it’s often is a bout of illness that finishes everyone off and drives change too

Your situation is not sustainable. You are compromising the sleeping safety of your baby and your long term health through overwhelming fatigue. How are you safely driving, looking after DC, not making loads of mistakes when working like this..?

You need to sit down in a calm neutral space with DH and have a deal-breaker decision chat - what can and will you both change? Because your lives and marriage don't sound like a healthy role model to your children apart from what it's doing to you.

This is madness, op.

A bit of tv for the older ones to give you some peace and let the baby sleep is a good idea, don't feel bad about turning on Paw Patrol or whatever

@AnnaHorribilis I can't give you up to date parenting advice but I can give you the age old advice to make sure you start taking care of yourself and stop being down on your abilities. Three under five is such a big ask, remember that.

You want to be able to remember this time with some smiles, not stress overload and so you do need to make things easier wherever you can and don't you go feeling guilty about it.

Your DH needs to push back on work for the next few years - these are probably the hardest years of childcare, so he needs to set better boundaries with the family business for a while.

What would happen if he said he was doing 9-5 only?

If he works a Sunday, why doesn't he claim the TOIL back? You're on your knees, and he's voluntarily giving up a day when he could look after the kids while you work in peace. That's bonkers, and sounds quite selfish.

I'm not surprised you're on your knees OP! You need a plan of action and after a quick read through the thread, I think a good one would be...

1. Use disposables at night. It's only one a day, you can get more environmentally friendly ones, the children wouldn't need bathing in the morning.

1. Get DH to give the baby a bottle in the evening (expressed or formula whichever works for you). I honestly couldn't believe the difference this made when I did it.

1. With 1 & 2 in place, hand over the evening routine to your DH. Baths, bottle, bed and stories. He may have more luck settling the baby than you as he is not the same source of food/comfort that you are (it will be hard at first though).

1. See if you can get the 2 yr old in to preschool with the 4 yr old. If it's preschool rather than private nursery it shouldn't be outrageously expensive. Even if it's just a couple of days a week it will give you a much-needed break, especially if the baby can be trained to sleep in the cot.

1. Sleep in your bed!

WFH with no childcare is always going to be really tough but hopefully, those things should make it a bit better than it is now. Life will get easier as they get older but you need to be able to enjoy your time with them now too.

I think you have made a rod for your own back. The current sleeping arrangement is no good for you or your baby, and in fact could be dangerous for him/her if you slump on top of them. Your dh at the moment is a bit limited in what he can do because you have made the baby so dependent on you with BF every 5 minutes.
The 2 things to do are sleep train your baby and stop BF on demand. At 9 months he doesn't need it every 5 minutes.

I’m not feeding her every 5 mins, I just meant that she wants to be held all the time (by me or DH), she’s not great at being plonked down with lots of toys and having a play while I cook, for example.

The more I think about it, the more I think DH’s work situation is actually a huge part of the problem here.

He routinely works 60+ hour weeks — 40 hours full-time plus loads of ad hoc hours at home— including regular “over-nighters”, which means that we hardly ever get to spend proper time together in the evenings.

I tend to be left with the baby asleep on me because we both need time and peace to work and we know if we try and move her to her cot, she’ll wake up. It also means that if she’s unsettled overnight, he can’t really take her because he’s always down to the wire with some deadline or other.

The nature of his work means that deadlines are often very tight, so he’ll have to physically take himself off after the kids are in bed (eg to the kitchen, or upstairs), in order to get the space and lack of distractions he needs. So I’m left stuck under the baby, struggling to get what I need to do done, especially if she’s fussy or ill (like this week).

He doesn’t take his lieu days because, in his words, “the work’s still there, I’ll just have more to do when I go back”. But this obviously means that I don’t get “my” lieu days either when he works a weekend day.

I asked him last night if his family (/work bosses) know how many hours he has to put in at home. His response: “I’ve mentioned it.” He’s SO passive, it’s infuriating. He will never push for changes himself so I feel like I might have to collar one of the ILs myself and explain the impact this is having on our family. I’m not sure they even know the extent of it. I think my DH just thinks he’s managing with the ridiculous hours (he’s always worked like this, we met at uni), so it’s fine, but I’m inadvertently being forced to work the same hours and I’m really, really not managing.

I don’t mind adding that his take-home pay is around 18K a year. So we’re not talking the sort of money you’d expect to make sacrifices like this for. We’re both highly educated and qualified and I just feel like we could both be doing so much better than this!

That is a horrendous salary for the sacrifice your family are making. In fact, if you earn half of that, this 2 parents working around the clock for £27k a hear is so unbelievably ridiculous I’m wondering if you would be better off with tax credits, and that’s the first time I’ve ever said that

If, like the above poster says, you take home 27k between you, I literally earn more than your entire take home income on my 50% job (medic), my husband earns nearly double what I do, we have only two children and we live in the north and it's STILL tight at times.

It's completely ridiculous for a family of 5 with the sacrifices you are making. I'd be telling DP he needs to leave the family business and get a better paying job until the children are all in school and you can work.

@Passthecherrycoke I know! It sounds stupid, but I’ve never actually looked at it coolly, from a distance like this before. You just kind of muddle on, making ends meet. He hasn’t had a pay rise for years, even though the jobs and responsibilities have increased hugely. It’s utterly ridiculous isn’t it?