Or is this set-up unsustainable and shit?

[AnnaHorribilis]

I’m having yet another thoroughly miserable day (it’s becoming an almost daily occurrence now) and I’d just like a reality check — is this a totally crap and unsustainable situation or am I just in need of a grip? Wondering if this could be PND, even?

DH and I have 3 young children: 4, 2 and 9 months.

My husband works full-time; I am a SAHM by day but WFH (web-related) in the evenings. I earn roughly half what he does, if that’s relevant.

The 4yo goes to a local preschool for her 15 funded hours a week. The younger two are with me full-time. The 9mo is still breastfed and will not be put down for more than 5 mins, and will only sleep on me, day and night.

So, after the older two go to bed, I feed the baby with my laptop balanced on my knees behind her, and work like that from about 8-12. She’s ill and teething at the moment so not settling at all, but I have to just keep swapping sides and carry on because she won’t settle otherwise and I have deadlines to meet.

When I’m too tired to work any more, I close the laptop, slide down a bit on the sofa and sleep half sitting all night, with constant wake-ups from the baby.

DH sleeps in the bed upstairs, usually also working late, and if the older two wake up early or in the middle of the night, they go in with him.

I do all the housework, shopping, and any “life admin” (sorry, I know MN hates that term but think birthday/Xmas cards and presents, bills, insurance, tax, appointments, everything). After previous outbursts about this (from me), DH now does most of the washing up in the morning before he goes to work, leaving the dirtiest pans etc. as he washes cleanest-dirtiest and they won’t all fit on the drying rack 🙄

So my day is basically: get up with the baby; get all three children bathed and dressed; put wash on; make breakfast for everyone; walk eldest to school for 9; come back and look after two or three preschoolers all day as well as any chores that need doing; make dinner for 6 so we can all eat together when DH gets in; bedtime routine; work with fussy baby on top of me; sleep/not sleep sitting up all night; repeat.

Is this normal/expected when kids are this age? I just feel like there’s absolutely NO fun or downtime in my life at the moment.

I’m also not enjoying my children at all. I’m knackered and bad-tempered almost all the time and it feels like they’re always complaining, bickering, crying, making mess, demanding things, etc. etc. etc. I know they’re not, and they’re actually lovely children who I love to bits, but I’m just so worn down and snowed under with everything I’ve got to do.

I feel like a totally crap parent at the moment. I snap at them and feel awful for it, but my temper seems to be getting shorter and shorter by the day. I feel on-edge, stressed out, angry and tearful a lot of the time.

Sorry that was so long! 😭 Basically AIBU to be feeling this way, does this sound like too much to cope with to you or am I just not resilient enough?

It applies unless you live in the family home of the owner.

Does he?

We had a really long talk after I posted yesterday. I think you’re right, the “I feel” angle doesn’t work so well (although it bloody should!) because on the surface of it, things are still getting done, nobody’s starving, I’m disgruntled but dependable, same old...

I think I managed to get through to him about the pay by saying that either we take shit pay, but the payoff if that work stays at work and we have quality family time at home, including downtime for us both, or if these conditions carry on he needs to push for a considerable pay rise to make it worthwhile (not possible IMO) and ease the burden on me.

His arguments / My thoughts:

• I’m making him feel guilty about bringing work home, at a really really busy time for him when this is unavoidable.

Would he prefer I just bottle it up until I have an actual breakdown, or a car crash or something?

• His mum frequently asks how we’re doing and offers to help by eg. paying for some childcare for the 2yo.

News to me, and also this is just another example of benevolent handouts from “on high” — same as the house deposit, and expensive gifts like shoes for the children. It casts us in the role of perpetually grateful charity cases, with them constantly “helping us out”. I’d rather he just got paid a decent, reliable wage!

• It’s not the right time to push for more money, he’s coming to the end of a long project and once it’s signed off on he feels he’ll have more weight to put behind any discussions around pay.

Fair enough. I don’t want him to feel ambushed into saying anything “right now” if he genuinely needs a little bit of time to put forward his best case. Not fair enough if this is just deflection, however!

• He’s not sure how able they’ll be to just issue a payrise, the money might not be there.

OK, but he needs to raise it as an issue with them so they can work on that. Staying silent = no change ever, clearly.

• They’ve been generous to him at work in other ways, eg. giving him responsibilities from basically the moment he started that he’d have to work years in the industry to reach. This has been much more valuable and interesting than the years of “grunt work” he’d have to put in elsewhere to reach the same level.

That’s great, but they’re still paying him as though he’s doing “grunt work”. They’re having it both ways — quality work at low cost — while he’s doing this more high-level work but being paid way less than the going rate.

• Because of the above (lack of years of experience in the industry), he doesn’t think he would be able yet to get an equivalent job elsewhere for much more money. In a few years, maybe, but not now.

I think he’d be surprised, but I also think he lacks confidence and doesn’t like going outside his comfort zone. And even if all of this were true, as many have stated upthread, he could earn similar doing a 9-5 admin job or similar, and we’d have a MUCH better work-life balance. I don’t want him to do this because he enjoys his work and he’s great at it, but just for perspective.

No he doesn’t live in the business owner’s home, but technically his salary covers a 40hr FT working week, so it’s above NMW. But the workload and extenuating circumstances are such that he’s always worked waaayyy beyond that, for no extra pay. He gets one week’s pay as a “Christmas bonus” each year and that’s it. It’s around £330.

He’s not sure how able they’ll be to just issue a payrise, the money might not be there.

If the money’s not there, the business is not sustainable and he should walk away!

I think you're a fabulous mum and I think I get your ethos. Night weaning does IME help with sleep but you have to have had enough sleep to get through the wake ups rather than the easier feed back to sleep option so it's not that easy even if you want to do it.

If you can afford it then I think I would look at putting the 2 yr old into nursery for even a couple of hours 2 or 3 times week (also think once a week is too long between for them so they can take longer to settle). Plus if they aren't in the house they can't create the mess. Quality time with you is better than quantity.

If you can get an hour or two to get out of the house on your own at the weekend I think that would help too. Even if you just go and do the shopping on your own, but better if you can go for a walk or a coffee with a book.

One other thing is get hubby to do bedtimes on his own whenever you can, and regularly. Mine were fed to sleep but this was never a problem if their dad did bedtime when they were young. We didn't do it enough though and now they are older (5&3) if I am in the house there are major meltdowns if I am not with them. I'd love to just have an evening off of bedtime (and my husband works away most of the week so it feels like there isn't enough opportunities to try and implement this now).

So basically he doesnt care and its just an excuse to check out of family life! You do have a real problem here in that he is putting them ahead of you. He could make this all better but getting another job - any job really because that salary/hour ratio is awful

You havent actually answered how they live what lifestyle they have either

What are you actually going to do though

This is the reason we have tried not to mix family and business, it gets emotional and difficult.

If the money's not there to pay him extra, he needs to drop all the (unpaid) overtime and just start doing his hours.

Yes, the work will pile up, but that's work that someone should be paid to do.

**His mum frequently asks how we’re doing and offers to help by eg. paying for some childcare for the 2yo.

News to me, and also this is just another example of benevolent handouts from “on high” — same as the house deposit, and expensive gifts like shoes for the children. It casts us in the role of perpetually grateful charity cases, with them constantly “helping us out”. I’d rather he just got paid a decent, reliable wage!**

^You sound bitter. So his family want to help out but you would rather say no. Why?

It seems completely clear that he needs a new job. £18k for that amount of hours is crazy.

Would he see a career coach / recruiter to get an outsider's view on his value in the marketplace?

In the meantime I would take the "handouts" and consider it the wages he should have.

Are they at least contributing to a pension?

I'd the same bf experience with only one of my children, the others weren't nearly as demanding.He sucked do long one night that one of my nipples went white.
When he was teething or feeling unwell it was a nightmare and I suppose the breast becomes their only comfort. It's really difficult although i'd never recommend giving up bf. He breastfeed until he was over 3 and it was a struggle to give up even then.Looking back that natural weaning which occurred with the others just didn't suit his personality type.

misspiggy I don't think OP sounds bitter. I would be annoyed too if my employer offered be me £6 an hour and said 'but seeing as I'm so kind I'll do you a favour and pay for child care'. No, pay me £12 an hour and I'll bloody pay for childcare myself.

Paying a pittance and offering charity to make up the difference is crap

With your DH being on just £18k a year and you having 3 kids, would you not be able to claim UC? I know your youngest is young so probably wouldn't be taken into account due to the 2 child rule in place but would a family on £18k a year with 2 eligible children not get UC? That's if you gave up work of course. £18k a year is only just over NMW. 37.5 hours a week on NMW brings in £16k a year. Do UC not work it out on your take home wage as well so after pension, tax and NI? I'm not sure how it works but I've heard a lot about families on a low income as in NMW or just above getting a UC top up while one has to be a SAHP then once the kids are in school, it frees the SAHP up to work so they come off UC. Maybe run the figures through a calculator like entitled to. I assume you claim child benefit?

If this was me I would be contacting a benefits advisor - 18k is well under the threshold for uc/tax credits and wtc. I would want to know if you qualify for me too funding for nursery too.

You sound bitter. So his family want to help out but you would rather say no. Why?

She sounds fed up that her husband is working long hours in a job where his contribution is not recognised through a wage, and instead his parents decide what they want to spend money on and offer it intermittently when it suits them. How would you like it if your boss decided to cut your wages to below NMW and instead randomly gave you gifts of items that they thought you needed/should be spending money on? It's not 'help' they need - it's a realistic wage and a properly defined job description that allows her husband some time off work and doesn't rely on him working such ridiculous hours.

There are lots of issues but, without meaning to be unkind to OPs husband let’s not forget that one of them is his skills might not be particularly attractive to a corporate employer- what works well for a family business might not be desirable in the wider workplace. He needs to bear that in mind before getting carried away. Also it’s clear that threats about noting being paid minimum wage aren’t going to get him anywhere. It’s his parents!

Plus, I think later posters have hit it on the head- the family will almost certainly be better off financially with OP not working but claiming tax credits. This could potentially enable the husband to continue as he is for a few more years and for OP to concentrate solely on the children

Is it possible to get someone in to do the housework a few times a week? Just to give you a little break. It sounds an awful situation for the whole family. It will get better, and if you can't change things, try to keep that in mind ❤️

I would take a different tack at this point.

He does not expect to get any proper wages in the near future and it is quite doubtful in the far future too given that the business isn't doing too well in reality. He has said he doesn't have the skills to earn more elsewhere yet.

That means you have to take on being the primary earner. Your career has a future.

So from now on you will work X hours every evening and one full day at the weekend. Ideally you will arrange somewhere out of the house for you to work, a late night coffee shop or even a quiet pub can work for this.

Make it absolutely 100% clear that your job is now the primary job. His day time 40 work hours are protected for him but 40 hours outside of that is your work time and he doesn't get to block you from working. If he wants to arrange for his mum or anyone else to do the childcare so he can work overtime then that is for him to arrange.

Basically, he told you his job will be shit below minimum wage forever. Thus he cannot treat your job as a little optional hobby any more. Go maximum career woman. If he gets paid appropriately and/or you get more and better work then you can afford day time childcare, which will make things easier.

He can't have it both ways: his career always takes priority over your career and your life while his career is slave conditions and yours isn't. Nope.

But Op and her husband are paid similarly aren’t they? She earns half his wage for working 4 hours a day- approx 1/2 the hours he is contracted too- so her working more hours won’t make any difference to the household earnings

Just to clarify: it’s his take-home pay that’s £18k (after tax). His salary is £22k, I earn around £8-9k pa (no tax).

Honestly, yes, after thinking all this through I am feeling a bit bitter, quite honestly. Intentional or not, the upshot of our current lifestyle is that DH works long hours for his family for very little pay per hour, while I get lumped with all the extra responsibilities that that necessitates. DH won’t fully acknowledge this.

In terms of “taking the handouts”, firstly yes I would much rather get this money in the form of regular, reliable income, to spend as we see fit. And secondly this offer of childcare never made it back to me — DH had already said no to his mum and hadn’t mentioned anything about it to me. I would so much rather pay for this myself though, if our income was sufficient. The gifts make me feel quite uncomfortable, guilty and indebted to them, quite honestly — not a nice dynamic.

He works 12 hours a day on average. She works 4 hours a day. If she is bringing home half as much then her rate of pay is much higher.

Even if he worked 8 hours a day, they'd still be the same so why does he get all the flexibility. He can choose to work unpaid overtime at will. He can choose to do no life admin because work. That's demeaning to her, better, work.

It’s a horrible trap- knowing that money/help is there but not available in the way you need it

Right now he can get away without acknowledging it because it doesn't hurt him. Obviously he should care about your feelings and feel hurt if you are hurt. I'd be unhappy but that lining his FIL's pockets at your expense is OK to him. How come FIL has all this money to bestow upon you? Some of it is DH's rightful pay padding FIL's bank account. I'm surprised you don't explode at the mention of FIL living beyond the breadline while he pays DH at illegal levels.

The offer to you for childcare isn't really viable though. You've got one in term time preschool nursery is that right? So how on earth are you going to find a nursery/childminder to take the other 2 for those same 3 hours a day when nurseries tend to offer set half day sessions and childminders tend to need full/half day sessions too and wouldn't take the other 2 for those random 3 hours a day? You're right, it would be much better if they worked out what they'd give you in childcare and instead just give your DH a payrise and that way you could be sole carer to the kids and not have to faff about with various different childcare and find childcare in the holidays etc and not have to work with a baby on your knee! I know it isn't their fault that your baby doesn't sleep well but if they're offering to pay for childcare, why not just raise his pay instead? Surely it's better for the kids to be with their mum, as they're so young, than be in childcare if it can he helped? I have a feeling they don't want to pay the extra pension/NI contributions of him earning more. Could be wrong

Yes, current childcare is term time only. That would be another huge issue if I had to go into FT (daytime) work.

I haven’t said anything about IL’s income as I don’t want this to descend into IL bashing. As I’ve said, they’re lovely people and I don’t want to take swipes at them. They’ve built this business from nothing they’re entitled to enjoy their profits. Equally, we’re not entitled to anything just by virtue of being related. My gripe here is about fair pay for fair hours, family business or not.