How are mothers supposed to go back to work??

[ArtichokeAardvark]

I've just had the dreaded call from nursery to come and collect DS. 'Hello Mrs X, I'm afraid your son is unwell, please could you come and pick him up asap'.

My son is teething. Yes, he's a bit grumpy, but he's teething. Yes, he has a temperature but it's only 38.0 so not exactly an emergency. They admitted themselves he's running around happily with the other children, just being a little bit whingier than normal.

But no, I have to collect him. No they can't even give Teetha homeopathic stuff without a doctor's prescription. And please could I keep him home for 24 hours after his temp goes back to normal.

I am slammed at work. I'm the only person in my department this week and I'm desperately trying to tie up everything this month before I go on mat leave. I would drop everything if my son was genuinely unwell, but for god's sake he's TEETHING.

How the hell are mothers meant to be able to go back to work? This happens with depressingly regularity and my employer is luckily understanding but their patience is beginning to wear thin...

Catherine your entire post is focused on flexibility for women.
No! Make companies more flexible, sure. Make jobs and careers flexible for parents. It’s not about women “being available to parent at key times like illness”. It’s about a parent being available- and that means men need to drive some change. That’s the bloody multi-pronged fork we need to be wielding. Unique factors will always be unique, but systemic changes for equality will help everyone. Divorced single women - if the bloke they divorce steps up equally then problem also solved.

I’m not sure the government are particularly interested in the kind of nursery places working parents use for childcare- they’re private day nurseries generally responding to supply and demand like any other business.

It’s hard to comment on the rest, it’s quite wishy washy. I would’ve liked some support for my return to the workplace but wouldn’t have liked to spend my previous maternity leave attending training on it, as that (short) time was all about bonding with my baby.

@FineWordsForAPorcupine
And if the father does not use it (or even decides that this family life is just not his cup of tea and leaves), then what?
We have a mother who has to find a full time childcare for a 4.5 m.o. or lose her job? Premature babies could be just a couple of weeks out of intensive care at that age.

I think in practice it will just lead to shorter maternity leaves.

You could just as easily as what will happen if a mother can only have / only wants to have a short maternity anyway? Lots do.

The free hours thing is mostly rubbish anyway. What the govt pay to the nurseries isn’t enough to cover their costs. So either the quality of the nursery goes down, or the nursery pass the cost on to the parents by whacking up the cost of breakfast / lunch hour / after school hours to god-knows-what per hour. Nonsense.

You could just as easily as what will happen if a mother can only have / only wants to have a short maternity anyway? Lots do.
If they want, there is nothing to stop them returning early at the moment, so it is not a problem.
My exH threatened to take me to court with respect to parental leave with our youngest ( we separated before she was born). We eventually settled out of court that he will have 4 months (on full pay, as his employer provided this as a benefit package).
He spent his parental leave travelling the world. He's not an idiot to choose his time changing nappies, if he is paid and free, is he.

God that’s awful but my point is there is nothing to stop a woman doing the same at the moment either is there? Obviously women tend to be more responsible but that’s a result of the patriarchal culture we’re referring to

@Passthecherrycoke
You are right, but for some reason I trust women more in this matter. If we have a hands off dad, he is unlikely to be motivated by the loss of parental leave - as he never intended to take any in the first place. It actually is likely that such arrangement will push more women out of work, as returning to work with a 4 month old baby is likely to be very expensive.

I would’ve liked some support for my return to the workplace but wouldn’t have liked to spend my previous maternity leave attending training on it, as that (short) time was all about bonding with my baby.

Right absolutely. It's things like this that ought to be factored into these sorts of conversations. At the mo the conversation dismisses these realities that are especially pertinent to women. The culture of the workforce is male centered and the lanaguage I often see used seems to expect women to just be exactly the same despite the obvious difference of things like actually giving birth, breast feeding pmt, establishing bonding etc.

It may be wooly but it is true. Until we address them we're left at 'more free nursery places'

That is shit SympatheticSwan

Teething does not cauae fever . He has a bug take him home share responsibility with your husband !

And if the father does not use it (or even decides that this family life is just not his cup of tea and leaves), then what?

It is beyond the scope of maternity leave to fix the problem of "what happens when you procreate with a dick head".

If the father doesn't take up the paternity leave, no one can have it. And yes, the woman goes back to work at four and a half months.

@FineWordsForAPorcupine
I honestly cannot see how such an arrangement will benefit workplace equality. If anything, it makes the mother's employment position more vulnerable.

I think it would encourage more men to take parental leave - Sweden enacted the same use it or lose it policy, and it has been extremely successful. This means that women and men are regarded more equally in the work place (employers no longer get to discriminate against women for fear of what happens when they take maternity leave) men experience being the primary carer so are less likely to "not know what to do", and both carers take a smaller impact, rather than one being tanked entirely.

Will it transform abusive partners into loving dads? Will it fix 100% of problems? No. But I think it's an improvement on the current system.

If such a policy existed It would be non negotiable for us. We both wanted the child so we both take the leave. It would just be a normal part of family planning

We keep thinking the solution is longer school hours, breakfast clubs, after school clubs, less school term holidays and when people question whether this approach is actually in children's best interests, then often there is a defensive response and nothing changes.

I don't think this is the solution at all. I advocate better approaches to flexible working which is attractive to both men and women, However, the simple fact remains.....even when flexibility is offered many men actively choose not to take it up. The reasons behind this need addressing.

I had same issue at my sons school he wasn't teething but didn't want to play outdoors like normal which it was cold and thought he was unwell. School moaned because how long it took me to get there but like I explained to them I work at a hotel so not allowed carry my mobile but came as soon as I could and my husband works in a hospital and has the same problem. It was the school who said even if he unwell to still bring him in because they don't like it when they have too many absences. I feel that they don't appreciate that you have a job to do aswell.

even when flexibility is offered many men actively choose not to take it up. The reasons behind this need addressing

Parenting is often tedious, isolating and undervalued by our society. Seeing as we (as a society) allow men to get away with avoiding doing hands on care, it's not surprising they are happy to dodge it.

I'm anticipating at least a few posters saying "but my DH isn't dodging anything! He's so hands on with the kids for the half hour a day he sees them! It's nothing to do with gender - it just happens to have worked out for our family that it's best for him to work full time and me to go PT!"

This ignores the structures of the patriarchy which makes this outcome seem not only logical but unquestionable. For example, the idea of" man as breadwinner "is so entrenched that recent examination of the tax records of thousands of Americans showed that, when the woman earns more than the man in a hetero partnership THEY BOTH LIE ABOUT IT.

However, the simple fact remains.....even when flexibility is offered many men actively choose not to take it up. The reasons behind this need addressing.

That is a good point. And the reasons are not always at home or within personal relationships, they are often in the workplace.
My Oh has a "policy" within his company of paternal leave, flexibility for parents. Anyone trying to exercise these rights would find themselves out of the door. My OH took a total of 2 days off when each of our children were born.

And your DH still works for that organisation? Does he challenge those attitudes?

My Oh has a "policy" within his company of paternal leave, flexibility for parents. Anyone trying to exercise these rights would find themselves out of the door.

He should find a more family-friendly employer. If good employees vote with their feet, and tell their ex-employers why, things would start to change.

I know it’s not simple - perhaps there aren’t many equivalent employers etc - but if women consider family-friendly flexible employment then men should too. And any company that discriminated against people taking what is legally their right deserves to be rinsed at a tribunal. No one wants to test it out and put their head above the parapet- I get that, who does? But until men start really pushing back against these employers who’d apparently dismiss them for insisting on their legal rights then nothing will change.

NoSquirrels I am glad you understand. But in these workplaces who does want to put their head up to be fired? My OH was far more concerned about maintaining an income for his family than challenging the structure.
Yes he may have taken it to tribunal- a few thousand compensation and an unworkable position at the end of it.
He saw a few collegues challenge at a tribunal level- often they won- company were happy to stump up and carry on regardless.

It's easy to say demand rights, but in the real world we have to be realistic.

speakout and so the cycle of inequality continues....

There is no way my DH would continue working for an organisation that prevented him from being an actively involved parent. He might not have challenged it immediately but at the first opportunity he'd have been out of there. And rightly so.

@speakout and this is why I want employers incentivised to have as high a rate as possible of fathers using their quota of parental leave.

Of course both parents working isn't in the best interest of the child, but its better than the alternatives - not enough food, heating, housing etc. Do you say that only the rich can have children? Women who want to work to follow their passions can't?

Sure, long childcare hours isn't great, but going back to the days of women leaving work on getting married isn't the solution either.

It depends, my job offers more flexibility as my skill is more niche than DH's, and they want to retain people, there wouldn't really be a need for him to do a nursery pick up if need be, although he would. Also who says both parents working isn't in the best interests of the child? Unless you do a lot with them at home, ie socialising, days out, crafts etc then I think actually it's better for them to be with other children at nursery. People act like they get sent away somewhere horrendous for the day.