To invite Conservative voters to gather here

[Goddessofgrowth]

It’s ‘best of a bad bunch’ in my case but there are three threads petrified of BJ/Tories so wondered if any MN Tories would like to gather here!

@Alsohuman no but it’s rude to start forcing your opinions on people who vote differently from yourselves. I wouldn’t for example go into a Labour thread and tell everyone why they are wrong.

Your entitled to your opinion, so are we. So why don’t you respectfully go and start your own thread about the wonders of Corbyn instead of crashing this one.

I haven’t ever said you’re not entitled to an opinion. If your opinions can’t stand up to a discussion and a bit of scrutiny, I’d say they’re not worth having. I’m happy to discuss and question mine, and will happily change my mind (and do) when presented with evidence that conflicts with my beliefs. I’m not sure why you’re so threatened by that discussion.

If you want to post in an echo chamber, I’m sure there are a great many on the internet for your political affiliation.

Thank you puzzled, I appreciate that.

@Deathgrip this whole board is full of anti Tory anti brexit threads. Go post in one of those. Anyway I’ll leave it there.

but it’s rude to start forcing your opinions on people who vote differently from yourselves. I wouldn’t for example go into a Labour thread and tell everyone why they are wrong

Yes you would, I’ve seen you do it. If your opinions can’t deal with any challenge, maybe you might think twice about them.

@Alsohuman brexit threads are different or asking why ppl won’t vote labour etc I’m gotta put my opinion in and will do: But I wouldn’t if it was simply People talking about labour,

Epic, I had a similar situation in 2006. If anyone's remembers,'' horrors on the Labour ward'' dominated the news. It was literally a fucking blood bath. Life and death time to give birth.
That's if you could get into your chosen, expected ward, because hundreds of women were actually turned away in labour.

The ones that made it in were treated to a lack of beds, one mw per several women in established labour often left alone, in agony. It was probably safer to be turned away and left to give birth on the road side with ambulance staff.

Other treats... People given the same meds as others on the ward, not for their actual condition, so many women left with the retained placenta then collapsing and nealry dying (a speciality) of our local hospital... Discharged with needles, cannula still in ( 2 children I know of ,) and so on...

Mrsa flourished under Blair, standards were dire.
But Labour cares about our NHS.

Our NHS needs massive over haul. Culture, tests, everything needs looking at.

Training, staff, money... Everything.

Chucking money into the morass isn't going to do anything.

this whole board is full of anti Tory anti brexit threads. Go post in one of those.

That’s how we end up with echo chambers. Threads with different sides represented are far preferable.

I'm not a tory either, neither am I socialist, Labour, or the non Liberal anti Democrats.

I'm a swing voter.

For those worried about echo Chambers I hope you post on all the pockets of mumsnet with long running extreme left threads going on

...lied to the Queen...

How can anyone know that? The PM's conversations with the Queen are entirely private and confidential.

@JeffreeStar, equally respectfully, we are a few weeks' away from a GE and and these threads are read by many - they are de facto part of electoral campaign and, as much as us lefty are generous Jam making people, we cannot leave you lone rangers in a full thread of Tory propaganda - even so near to Christmas so I am afraid you have to cope with us.

We will be good thread comrades though, I promise you. We will bring Stormzy and Lily Allen for the music; Grayson Perry is going to make a special arty pot for each of us; Hugh Grant is going to read the Manifesto with expression and Delia Smith is going to cook us dinner!

There's no Party like the Labour Party :)

But we currently have the lowest life expectancy for women out of the top 20 world economies (19th for men, ahead of America). This is just one metric amongst a great many which shows just how far our quality of life is out of step with our wealth.

Life expectancy is often used as a measure of healthcare quality. In reality there are many conflating factors.

Factors responsible for mortality variation in the United States: A latent variable analysis

Life expectancy data in the US recently showed a slight drop. The reason was an increase in deaths from opioid overdoses. When you have thousands of people dying in their teens and 20's it has a big impact on the averages.

@Winterisnigh you devilish swinger, you! Wicker heart on the window then? Or pampas grass in the front garden?

Chucking money into the morass isn't going to do anything.

I’ve already acknowledged this. More needs to change than just funding (although I can’t understand how anyone can trust a Boris promise about NHS funding after the immediate post-referendum u-turn). More needs to change than just extra staff.

But the labour manifesto NHS section is not just about extra funding or extra staff. Have you read it? I think we all need to read both manifestos, it’s very important, not least so that we can actually hold whoever wins to account based on their promises
labour.org.uk/manifesto/rebuild-our-public-services/

The Conservatives have repeatedly failed to keep their manifesto promises in the last decade - I’m sure the same was true of Labour before them, it’s become pretty standard in British politics.

What I don’t understand is why parties are repeatedly re-elected when they have failed to meet those promises?

If Labour win and don’t do their best to deliver their plans, then we exercise our democratic rights to vote for someone else. If their policies are truly harmful then an early election can be called, just as it has been now. All this catastrophising about theoretical damage when we have a government doing so much damage right now is what I find so strange.

I lost my father to hospital cock ups in 2010 - well into the period of Blair/Brown splashing the cash. Lack of resource wasn't the problem - it was incompetent/arrogant staff who made one foul up after another after another. My mother ended up literally almost living there to keep an eye on them and check what they were doing - the whole thing was a fiasco. An example, one afternoon, consultant came on his rounds - said they'd be operating the next day and went away. Then early evening, someone came to say he was being transferred to a hospital in the next town, an hour away - we assumed the operation was to be done there. Next day, in the other hospital, consultant came round and hadn;t a clue why father was there, no files had been sent over, so he had to phone up the original consultant only to find out he was expected in theatre at the original hospital so his op had to be cancelled. Never got any sensible answer as to why he was moved - presumably just another cock up, but it delayed his op by a week (the next scheduled theatre day for the surgeon), and by that time, his condition had deteriorated and the anaesthetist refused to allow the op to go ahead.

Life expectancy is often used as a measure of healthcare quality. In reality there are many conflating factors.

I never said it reflected healthcare quality specifically. It’s not a good reflection on where we are as a society, that was my point.

Doris The Cock Johnson stop talking to yourself you daft cunt.

If their policies are truly harmful then an early election can be called, just as it has been now.

Not if they hold a majority it can't.

The study itself says they looked at deaths from 2011-2014
An increasingly elderly population.This could well be a factor

Indeed:
ONS Year UK Population 0 to 15 years (%) 16 to 64 years (%) 65 years and over (%)

1975 56,226,000 24.9 61.0 14.1
1985 56,554,000 20.7 64.1 15.2
1995 58,025,000 20.7 63.4 15.8
2005 60,413,000 19.3 64.7 15.9
2015 65,110,000 18.8 63.3 17.8

But we currently have the lowest life expectancy for women out of the top 20 world economies

Where do we fall in other metrics, such as obesity, smoking, drinking, etc? Perhaps it's other factors, not spending on health, that is causing reduced life expectancy.

user this is another issue that’s addressed in the labour manifesto, under “joined up care” in the NHS section. It’s worth a read.

I’ve worked in the NHS part time over the last few years. I’ve had the misfortune to be involved in the procurement of a new digital system for one hospital department.

Much of the consideration was about which privately purchased systems were already in place, and how they would interact with whatever was purchased. It was a logistical nightmare. You wouldn’t believe the cost of these systems, sold by private companies to each area of each CCG at eye watering cost (over £1m a go in this case), all for things that don’t work together and will need to be replaced in future.

Instead of this obscene outlay to private companies funded by tax payers, the NHS could develop proper systems in house which could be used universally and make everything joined up. But we are already part way down this road and getting back requires huge change and huge investment.

Where do we fall in other metrics, such as obesity, smoking, drinking, etc? Perhaps it's other factors, not spending on health, that is causing reduced life expectancy.

I never connected reduced life expectancy to reduced healthcare spending. It was a separate point about our living standards as a whole.

Clavinova yes, I already looked up the stats and that’s why I said it could well be factor.

However, the study factored in the ageing population and was compared against projections of numbers of deaths, not previous years figures.

Long term Tory voter here, I voted Labour only once which was when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were at the helm, but the thought of Corbyn and McDonnell sending us straight back to 1970s terrifies me, I live in a Tory heartland but as we know nothing is guaranteed.

I'm a single parent who is disabled & have a disabled child. The only things the Tories have done for me is force me to have to go through 7 health assessments in the last 5 years with companies who are paid to lie & fail claimants, leave me terrified of the threat of Universal Credit, unable to get a GP appointment, my son isn't getting the support he should be getting in school & has been waiting nearly 3 years to see a psychologist, this is an autistic child who is self harming, suffers from anxiety & depression, I'm unable to move to a suitable council home because there isn't the money to build them. My son will be old enough to go to university in 2022, I don't want him to be saddled with around £30k of debt when he finishes, I want there to be jobs so he can get a job that stretches his mind & doesn't wake up dreading every working day & can afford to buy his own home & reach his full potential. I also want a country that looks after it's old, poor, sick, vulnerable & disabled people, that doesn't have people sleeping in the street & where nurses & other workers don't have to use food banks because their wage isn't enough to support them & their families. If you don't want all this then vote Tory, if you do care about the less fortunate members of our society then vote Labour. I will be voting for Jeremy Corbyn & Labour.