To invite Conservative voters to gather here

[Goddessofgrowth]

It’s ‘best of a bad bunch’ in my case but there are three threads petrified of BJ/Tories so wondered if any MN Tories would like to gather here!

@deathgrip you seem to have had the same as me. They can't answer your questions so resort to attacking you.

I'm disabled, reliant completely on the state. Which I have to say so far has been very good to me (well aware it isn't to everyone). PIP meetings were a pain in the arse at first but after going to a tribunal I'm now no longer bothered with reassessments.

And this election I'm voting Tory (usual a floating voter, though tend to lean towards Labour).

If Labour get in we can kiss goodbye to women's rights. Jeremy will happily talk to terrorists to help him see both sides of the debate...but he refuses to talk to womens groups about the impact open to all self-ID will have on safeguarding. Girl guides, prisons etc. are already failing women, if he gets in it will be the end of the single sex spaces needed by so many.

Girl guides, prisons etc. are already failing women, if he gets in it will be the end of the single sex spaces needed by so many

Yep. Well said

Deathgrip I can only talk from own experience.

My sister suddenly and permanently lost virtually all her eyesight in 2009. She was declared Fit for Work under the last Labour government. It was only under the coalition government that the criteria for the ‘support’ group was relaxed and she was awarded ESA.

The DWP ESA statistics by quarter are available. They show a very clear pattern that more claimants are placed into the support group now than ever before. In fact, there is a clear distinction between the time that Labour was in power - when most claimants were deemed Fit for Work, and now.

Sadly, I can’t access the statistics as I can’t see them properly (literally), but they are there on the DWP website. Search for ‘outcomes of WCA assessments by quarter’.

DLA to PIP is another matter. I am quite happy to have an alternate discussion about it elsewhere, but it risks detailing the thread. Put it this way, I have known incorrect assessments under both systems.

Both Labour and Conservative have committed to reducing reassessments. Labour have not said that they would axe reassessments - only that they would be brought back ‘in house’ under their new DSS. That can have its own problems.

Your hysteria is comical.
The fact you think it’s funny says a lot about you.

My mother died due to NHS being overstretched which led to her primary cancer being misdiagnosed and treated incorrectly.

My children are both disabled and my life is currently a daily battle to try and get the help they need from every corner - medical, social, financial, educational.

If I were hysterical, it would be understandable. But I’m not - I’m disgusted at how many people simply couldn’t care less about others.

But don’t dare to lecture me on voting for a morally bankrupt party. The last time Labour were in Downing Street, they invaded Iraq.

You can’t have it both ways. Corbyn voted against the Iraq war at every possible opportunity. He was vehemently opposed to it. It seems Corbyn is responsible for Blair’s decisions when it suits, and his antithesis when it suits.

The Labour Party invaded Iraq. Do you imagine Corbyn expunges Labour’s CV? That’s your party. Own it

@deathgrip you seem to have had the same as me. They can't answer your questions so resort to attacking you.

All questions answered; answers ignored.

No one can comment on your life deathgrip. It does sound pretty shit. But you cannot blame people for voting for fiscal responsibility over mad cap schemes. My worry is Jeremy runs us off the rails then there will be even less help because the pot will be empty and we will have blown our credit. That's my concern.

Corbyn consistently voted against invading Iraq.

You can’t have it both ways. Corbyn voted against the Iraq war at every possible opportunity. He was vehemently opposed to it. It seems Corbyn is responsible for Blair’s decisions when it suits, and his antithesis when it suits.

This is actually the only lucid point you've made in the course of this entire thread, but to be fair I'm guessing you were berating people for voting Tory in the Blair era too.

The national debt tripled under the tories. It won't get any better under them

The number of deaths in the study are estimates:

"When the study began the authors only had official figures for the number of deaths up to 2014, so they projected what might happen to the number of deaths between 2015 and 2020."

Also from the links:

“The study finds that the excess deaths are largely in nursing homes for those over 60, with substantially fewer deaths in hospitals, especially for the under 60s."

"The authors attempt to explain the effects in terms of nurse staffing levels, but without seeing the online appendix the reader can’t tell if these nurses are mainly employed in hospitals or care homes. If it’s the former, then the postulated relationship between nurse staffing levels and deaths would be unconvincing."

If we are going to start being DISGUSTED by other people's democratic vote, I could say I'm DISGUSTED that people are planning to vote Corbyn when 87% of the Jewish population are upset about labour anti-Semitism and him being in power.

I am glad somebody mentioned the reasons why a lot of us cannot vote Green or Lib Dem.

I voted for Brexit and assumed there'd be a cost. No sleepless nights

Come off it. The reason some people here are leaving labour to vote Tory is because for once they realise that the cost may havw to be partially paid by them, and they heavily dislike it.

This is actually the only lucid point you've made in the course of this entire thread, but to be fair I'm guessing you were berating people for voting Tory in the Blair era too.

Nope, not really. I was a Lib Dem voter in those days. Plus I went on marches against the invasion of Iraq myself as a student. I in no way have ever supported that disgusting mess, and neither has Corbyn.

Both Labour and Conservative have committed to reducing reassessments. Labour have not said that they would axe reassessments - only that they would be brought back ‘in house’ under their new DSS. That can have its own problems.

It will have been ATOS who conducted your relative’s initial WCA. ATOS are a huge part of the problem, we are throwing hundreds of millions at them despite a disability benefit fraud rate that was already less than 1% years ago. Bringing it in house is the least they can do.

The Labour Party invaded Iraq. Do you imagine Corbyn expunges Labour’s CV? That’s your party. Own it

The difference is that I’m not advocating voting for Tony Blair and the Blairites. You are advocating voting for the government who have these policies now.

Oh, and denying there’s a problem is not an answer.

Sorry to hear about your mum deathgrip. That's really sad.

Thank you Trewser, I appreciate that.

She had the wrong surgery and 8 months of the wrong treatment, then told her it was in remission for six months - during which time cancer destroyed her entire stomach, at which point they refused to operate as it was terminal. She died a few months later.

They had the information they needed to realise her diagnosis was wrong within a month of her being referred (which was already more than a year too late). They just didn’t bother to look further because they were so stretched.

She was 61 years old.

People denying that this is happening and erasing people like my wonderful mum perhaps does make me hysterical at times. But every single one of those deaths has a story behind them like my mum’s, and people fail to understand that it could be their loved one next.

I will stop there because it’s too upsetting - suffice to say that the excuses about the inability to prove the link between an underfunded health and social care service and an increase in mortality rates is more than problematic.

Sorry about your mum, death

The same happened to mine, in 1998. I don’t need to point out that was under a labour government.

Wow things have come along way on mumsnet, it wasn’t that long ago you couldn’t even admit you were a Tory voter or you were the evil person on Earth.

“So the massive increase in deaths based on mortality in the preceding years is due to what?”

‘The big freeze’ of 2010.
Swine flu.
An increasingly elderly population.
Explosive general Population increase.
Poor management.
The sharp rise in obesity.

Just some ideas, it could be ANY of those things or none, including austerity as a possible contributing factor. But there are so many variables here, it’s too easy to just say it’s down to one thing, especially when a well regarded, (often cited on MN) unbiased fact checking site is in agreement that the stats are not taking all of the variables into account.

I am very dubious at this being used as a political beating stick, to suit a specific and deliberate political narrative, when those other factors remain unexplored.

That said, we all know the NHS is under significant pressure, it is acknowledged widely and not disputed even here. But throwing ‘shock and awe’ figures around, especially ones that are more than a tad dubious, doesn’t really get the point over imo.

Anyone got some sardines to throw to the sealions we have here?

They seem to be insatiably hungry!

(Pic)

Thank you EntropyRising :)

I tell you all a story if I may - there is a ward in my area that is really close - we were 'fighting it to the death' at the council election - in the end it went to the Conservatives for 20 votes. As you can imagine both parties were doing intense canvassing - I was out canvassing for Labour.

You may be surprised to hear that one day (shock, horror) I went for a post-canvass drink with the Tory activist canvasser as we both had Post Traumatic Canvasser Disorder: it was a bit of a rough area and I had Tory voters shouting at me and they had Labour voters yelling at them! One particularly irate Tory run after me threatening to unleash their dog on me for putting a leaflet to the door - it was the Tory canvasser who helped me and we did a couple of streets together, and then it was my turn to soothe the irate Labour supporters and say "let them do their job - it's a leaflet, FFS". It was great to have a drink with them because we kept it positive and said what each other envied from the other party (Us: the unity and common front - the left is so split! Them: apparently was are 'cooler' and have young people and artists and musicians with us - I am not going to deny that - I have been both at Labour and Tory conference and the parties at Lab conference are way younger and more fun!)

We have the luck to live in a democratic country where each party, when they go in power, will have the check and balance of the opposition, and we should be a little more lighthearted and kind towards each other. I liked when some posters said that they also want the best for society, they just see a different way to go on about it.

In response to the OP, I wouldn’t consider myself a ‘MN Tory’ in that I don’t belong to any political party (and indeed, most of my life have not voted Conservative), but it’s nice to see a bit of balance, so thanks for starting the thread.

I voted Brexit, so the Conservatives it shall be. It helps that my Tory MP seems like a decent enough guy.

I rarely watch politicians on TV, but did take time out for the recent Question Time. Went into it disliking Nicola Sturgeon and Jo Swinson, quite willing to give Corbyn a listen because I think his heart is generally in the right place, but actually rooting for Johnson – not because I’m such a fan, but more because there’s so much of what I’m going to call the wrong kind of nonsense said about him that I end up disliking his most vocal detractors even more.

Came away with a newfound respect for Sturgeon (at least her ability to talk a good game), feeling the same about Swinson, down a bit on Corbyn, and having no kudos at all to give to Johnson for his performance. Oh well. For me, it comes down to Brexit, and the party most likely to deliver on the original people’s vote.

I don’t believe the deaths were down to the Tory government

Personally I neither believe nor disbelieve it; the point is that we don't know. Even the report underlined the reasons for this, yet still the 120,000 figure is trotted out as if repeating a lie often enough will somehow make it true

If only folk weren't capable of looking into these things for themselves, it might even work ...

I liked when some posters said that they also want the best for society, they just see a different way to go on about it.

I have said this and I believe it. But when you relentlessly get crap like "oh so you think the deaths of eleventy million thousand people hysterical do you?", taken from a completely fabricated conflation of separate sentences (and they know it) it gets tedious. There's no substance, just this ranty teenager trying to always have the last word.