To think we weren’t in the wrong here?

[outofthedarkshadows]

Out with DD aged 3 and a woman walked past. DD said in that loud way children have ‘that’s a big lady.’

I know that must have been unpleasant for her but she gave me such a look and said ‘teach it some manners.’

(I had quietly said to dd that wasn’t a nice thing to say.)

Also - all the horror at the woman using the word "it" - it isn't always completely clear which gender a small child is. Even long hair and a princess dress aren't certain indicators.

Because when we upset other people we apologise for doing so?

Ordinarily yes, however on the bazillion times I have witnessed small children making innappropriate public comments the generic social reactions i usually see are either a) everyone pretends they didnt hear the child or b) everyone laughs.

And yet, you refer to a 3 year old child as “mannerless” and call it a factual observation

Because in this instance, the OP has asked for an opinion.

If the OP was saying that the woman had asked her and her DD whether they thought she was 'big' or not, then a factual observation would be entirely appropriate.

Conversely, if I'd been passing the OP when this happened and had blurted out that her DD was mannerless, then that would have been an inappropriate time to make a factual obervation.

Can you really not see the difference between replying honestly to a question, and offering an unasked for and unwanted opinion?

This thread clearly strikes a nerve with you.

You're absolutely right that it does. I am of very unattractive appearance, and have often been taunted in the street by strangers for being "ugly". I know exactly how hurt and mortified the woman in this situation would have felt, especially as the mum, by not apologising, appeared to condone her DD's actions.

oak them would have been a polite alternative. It is purposely rude. Lets not pretend otherwise.

In essence the 3yo didnt know she was rude. Arguably the word "big" to a 3yo means something entirely different to what it means to adults.

The adult knew what she was saying was rude and meant it to be rude.

Because when we upset other people we apologise for doing so?

Well no.

People get upset for all sorts of reasons, it’s not my job to manage that.

I apologise when I’m in the wrong. The OP wasn’t.

Calling someone "big" is not an insult. I have no idea why people would think it is.

Calling someone "it" is an insult.

I was out walking my dog this morning. I am tall and was walking quickly. A child of around three said "mummy that man is walking very fast". According to some on here I probably should have publicly berated the parent for their horrendously ill mannered child and demanded abject apologies and perhaps self flagellation and a notice of apology on the community Facebook page. Obviously I didn't, I smiled at the child and walked on. Because I'm a grown up and the child is learning about life and about what they can and can't say and what might upset people to pass comment on.

Frankly the first response to this OP by MrsJaneAusten nailed it.

Your 3 year old is being 3. Social awareness is barely developing and it was an innocent observation. It would be a non event for me. She was embarrassed by a toddler but that's her own insecurity. I wouldn't apologise to anyone who referred to my child as 'it'.

My two are keen observers of others, shall we say, but have done very well with instruction 'only comment if you're saying something nice about things people have chosen' so clothes and hairstyles are fair game, but bodies and skin colour etc are off limits. I think this is a situation where it's really helpful to tell them what they can say than getting into what they shouldn't.

DD is only 3! Manners are taught incrementally, not installed in one hit like a computer programme. Sheesh!

Child makes loud comment about big lady: parent says, "People come in all shapes and sizes, dear. Some are small like you and grow up to be tall. We don't say things about people's size, though because it's not polite. Shall we say sorry to the lady?"

Why are you complaining. The woman was hurt, rightfully so. Your dd is only 3, but you corrected her and she will/must learn not to comment on Others appearance because it can be very hurtful.

So, what's the actual issue? The fact the woman commented to you?

It's ridiculous to keep insisting that people can't possibly understand children without some special knowledge about child development

If your memory is good enough to remember exactly what stage of development you were at at which age, and indeed, what you looked like at what age, in your pre-school years, then kudos to you.

Unfortunately, 40 years on, I simply don't have that kind of detailed recollection, and without any context such as another child to compare them with, I can't judge children's ages - I wouldn't know whether a child was 2 or 5, for instance.

If someone referred to one of my children as "it" they've lost the good manners argument and they better watch out.

Your daughter is only 3 and probably doesn't realise but that doesn't mean you can't apologise on her behalf as well as trying to teach her not to comment on people's appearance!!!

I wouldn't know whether a child was 2 or 5, for instance

Give over!

that doesn't mean you can't apologise on her behalf

But what is she apologising for? Having a typical 3 year old?

I disagree. For two reasons. A child is not an “it.”
Secondly, you do not teach a child that public shaming is wrong by loudly and publicly shaming them for what they said in innocence.
That is like teaching a child not to hit by smacking them. Hypocrisy.

I know the thread has moved on somewhat but I wanted to address your retort.

I never said calling a child “it” was acceptable so your first point is moot. The woman was in the wrong to say that, as I said.

To address your “shaming is the same as smacking” comment. Ridiculous hyperbole for a start. Correcting poor behaviour is not shaming. If a child was running riot in a shop and a mother corrected the behaviour would that be “self-expression shaming”? No obviously not. I’m not suggesting OP shouts and the child and demands an apology from a 3 year old. I’m suggesting OP should have apologised to the woman if she was offended and explained to the child that it’s not polite to comment on people’s appearances and that people are valued no matter what shape or size so the woman could hear. Replace “big” with “got no arm” or “is a funny colour” or anything else highly offensive, and you definitely would expect a correction and educational lesson to take place. Though I appreciate the heat of the moment you panic and try and quash the situation quickly.

@LaurieMarlow

But how is shaming the child in public a good way of dealing with this?

i don’t agree with your categorisation of this as “shaming” the child exactly. But since being told off is embarrassing I’ll accept it.

This method indicates to the child that her behaviour is at odds with society and has the additional benefit of showing the injured party that it won’t be tolerated.

She doesn’t understand why it’s rude, she’s just calling it as she sees it. A few quiet, considered conversations about people’s feeling will be far more effective than coming on heavy in public when she doesn’t understand what she’s done wrong.

You can do both, tell her off in the moment and explain later why it wasn’t okay to speak that way.

I’m all for calm considered parenting. I don’t think the child should be punished for something she doesn’t know us wrong. But why not tell her off? She won’t be psychologically damaged by a cross voice and being told she’s been rude. Then later explain why it was rude.

But limp ineffectual “don’t do that darling” parenting doesn’t work. I’ve seen kids just ignore it, they know it means nothing.

Calling someone "big" is not an insult. I have no idea why people would think it is.

Let's consider this. I agree it shouldn't be considered as insulting, but unfortunately, that's not the view of society at large. Apart from very specific contexts, such as if someone is body-building, calling a woman 'big' is usually considered unflattering, at least in UK culture.

But why not tell her off? She won’t be psychologically damaged by a cross voice and being told she’s been rude. Then later explain why it was rude.

She will be confused and disoriented. I don’t believe public negative reaction for something they don’t know is wrong does anyone any good.

It may make it more difficult to get the point across later as shame and unexplained negativity may cause her to push it away.

I’m all for calm considered parenting. I don’t think the child should be punished for something she doesn’t know us wrong. But why not tell her off?

Dont think she should be punished but why not tell her off? Do you even realise what you've said there? Makes no sense.

Also But limp ineffectual “don’t do that darling” parenting doesn’t work. I’ve seen kids just ignore it, they know it means nothing

Bullshit. You dont know it was "limp" and children arent stupid. Its your attutude as a parent which dictates whether they know you mean it or not.

A "we dont say that ds" works perfectly well for me because he knows i mean it. Id then explain why we dont say that.

A telling off is pointless if a) they werent purposely naughty and b) they dont understand.

Lots of other ways to parent that dont include pointless shouting.

Give over!

I'm being honest. I don't have children and there are no children in my family. I rarely look at a child other than in passing.

In some circumstances, there's context to help judge a child's age - e.g. if they are wearing school uniform - but if I pass a child in the street I would only be able to guess age within a wide band - e.g. not a baby, but probably under five; junior-school age; a young teenager - that sort of thing.

Surely from the POV of a three year old, all adults are big? 🤷‍♀️ I’ve often had small children comment on my wheelchair or crutches, the parents cringe, but I just smile and tell them that it’s to help me because I have a bad leg. I think anyone who’s offended by a toddler, it’s more about their own issues.

Lots of other ways to parent that dont include pointless shouting.

Absolutely. I want my child to get consistent reactions from me. Not random ‘crossness’ that they don’t understand.

kitten well thats plain ignorance or stupidity there are millions of arguably very obvious differences between a 2yo and a 5yo.

If you got offended by a toddler because you didnt know how old they were and whether they should know better that would be entirely your own fault.

well thats plain ignorance or stupidity there are millions of arguably very obvious differences between a 2yo and a 5yo.

I'm sure they are 'obvious' to people who have their own DC or spend a lot of time with children. I haven't spent time with anyone under 5 since I was that age myself, which was more than 40 years ago.