To still be pissed off how I (and so many other women) are treated before/after birth?

[LyndzB]

How I was treated in hospital before and after the birth of my child still gets to me.

Things like...

1.when I'd had an epidural from a 3rd degree tear, I rang the nurses button for help. A nurse told me off and said I should've walked to reception as I wasn't ill. I had to explain I'd had an epidural.

1. Lying in blood stained sheets for 4 days, kept asking for fresh so I could change myself

1. Waiting 5 hours after birth for some food and water - couldn't move due to epidural

1. Being told my son was in NICU and they needed his vests. I had several bags with me and I couldn't for the life of me remember which one had vests in. I still couldn't move and the nurse got annoyed that I didn't know where they were. I'd just been told at that point he was in NICU and was worried sick.

I've read stories from women far worse than mine.

We just seem to accept it. Me included. I think we just want to get out, move on and enjoy our babies. But in the meantime nothing changes. I only see it getting worse.

The hard part is, it's difficult to criticise as I don't want to be seen criticising the nhs. I love the nhs. It's a wonderful invention. I know it's a funding issue and that nurses and doctors and porters and all staff are working so hard.

And I'm sure many women do have good experiences (as much as you can delivering a baby!)

I suppose I just want things to change for the better. I don't know where to start. And maybe it's just too much to ask for little old me!

Anyone else feel this way?

I used to think the nhs was this amazing world class health service, then I gave birth in a hospital and actually experienced this world class service.

There are a lot of patronising and condescending nurses and midwives. A lot of them get a sadistic pleasure out of humiliating first time mums. I especially feel they don’t like strong women who k ow their rights, and have high expectations. When these women need their help they almost laugh. I say this as someone who didn’t have a bad birth but who k owe several women who have been belittled in hospitals and put up with horrendous after care.

Me personally I have argued back at every midwife who refused to believe I was in labour, or expected me to know the Kafka rules of the post/antenatal wards (one and the same at my hospital) and then just point blank ignored the silly woman so I could push the baby out whilst she was flapping on about taki g a paracetamol for the pain.

I've had 3 DCs so have a real mixed bag of experiences I could share but it would take forever. Most of which are very similar to other bad experiences on here. Labour care was much better than post care.

Being asked about the condition of my sanitary towel post-birth in front of my dad at visiting time is just one memory that stays with me. Having to wee into a jug and having the blood filled jug held up to the light by staff member and questioned about it, all the while with the toilet door open and the bathroom door wide open due to the wheelchair I needed post-birth whilst all visitors were walking past is another. I could go on. And on.

But there are some angels in the NHS who don't get enough credit, I think because the bad experiences stay with us forever and overshadow and outweigh the good ones. Thank you to the midwives who show compassion and care no matter how stressed and overworked you are. You are worth your weight in gold and we do remember you, even many years later.

Let's just say that the advice I would give new mothers in hospital is: be prepared to be expected to do everything for yourself no matter what condition you are in.
Ask close family members beforehand to help you with all the necessary things when they visit and if they are prepared to speak up/complain/ask for help for you on your behalf.

One thing I can’t help thinking - which isn’t related to what’s happening and why as such - but is why our partners / family etc are not advocating for us?
For those women who are staying in 7/10 days etc, saying each day was a living hell, being ignored, no pain relief, no attention or help with baby etc - where were your partners or support to pipe up and speak to the midwife, ward managers, consultants, anyone in a position of power to actually do something. If I messaged my parter in the middle of the night to say I was in agony with no pain relief and I couldn’t even pick up the baby, he’d have been at that hospital kicking up the biggest of fusses until something was resolved.
I realise not everyone has a partner or maybe even an advocate but the majority of women do have someone.
As much as things MUST change, we also need to advocate for ourselves and each other and this includes speaking up when it’s happening, not just after.

I'd had an awful delivery, but couldn't fault the care I received.

I was trying to breastfeed DS, he had an undiagnosed tongue tie and I was in agony. DS had had a couple of those little bottles of formula too. DH walked into town to get some bits as we were in longer than expected. He'd got me a couple of little bottles of formula so I didn't have to worry while he was out.

The breastfeeding midwife came into my room, where I was breastfeeding DS, saw the unopened formula and said 'I should take those off you'. At the time, I was exhausted after a 2.5 days induction, 3rd degree tear, 3 litre haemorrhage, completely overwhelmed first time mother and I didn't say anything. It's nothing compared to some stories on this thread, which are horrific, but that will stay with me. I felt like a child being told off.

I still think about it.

I remember visiting my father in hospital after his hernia, abdominal surgery, where he had received excellent care and resting well after his op.

In contrast, I'd had major abdominal surgery and was in agony just hours after, wondering how to pick up either of my screaming new born twins in the night because I couldn't move through agony. I had to buzz the nurses, but they were not happy.

Then, when I eventually summoned my strength to stand up (the agony) it seemed like the contents of my womb just fell out on to the floor. There was so much blood and matter, that I was scared and didn't know what was happening.
My husband raced to find a nurse, who came back with him, looked me up and down and looked at the 'puddle' of gore on the floor and gave me a look to say "you silly grl." and said: "That? That's nothing!" and went off in a huff.

I know this is another thread entirely but I was lucky enough to have my baby in a hospital whose policy was to allow the dads to stay overnight. He was my rock, helping with food, drink, getting up to walk, emotional support and he physically went and stood at the midwives desk at 11pm until we had answers about our baby's blood test that we had been waiting for since the previous day. We kept being told there weren't enough doctors.

If he'd had to go home I would feel much worse about the situation. Surely those ladies who have had epidurals and c sections would benefit from the dad or a family member staying to simply help lift baby and get food etc??

(But I know this is a hot topic with string opinions)

There seems to be a cultural expectation that post natal will be hellish in a way that there isn’t for other services. For both my pregnancies, I had great antenatal and maternity care but horrid post natal. I’m sure it must contribute to PND for some women. However, as things are getting tighter and tighter, I’m not convinced it is just post natal wards. My baby was in paeds recently and one nurse made us feel like shit. Normally paeds is the place where staff are at their nicest. Most people were lovey but there was an abruptness from some staff that surprised me. My lovey GP has ended up picking up the pieces and taking time to explain what had happened.

I gave birth to DS at UCH London and my experiences with midwives were unforgettable for all the wrong reasons.

Midwife no.1 who was on duty during the night when DS was a few hours old actually told me she hated her job. She went on to say she was annoyed at being called in that night as it meant she was missing the Apprentice and boy did her annoyance show any time anyone had the temerity to buzz for help. She snapped and snarled at some of the poor mums who asked for basic help - clean sheets, catheters to be changed etc and declared loudly “this isn’t a hotel!” when a hungry mum who has given birth late evening asked for a hot drink. Like many on this thread I was left in blood stained sheets for hours.

Another new mum from an adjoining crucible came in to pass DS to me to be fed as angry MW vanished at one point and no-one else responded to the buzzer (I was unable to walk post c-sect). This new mum was a lovely woman who was spoken to appallingly by midwives because she had limited English.

The day after giving birth a couple of midwives told me I was ready to go home. I was in excruciating pain and could not stand but they stood over me insisting I get up and walk as nothing was wrong with me and I probably just had wind. The bullying continued and I shouted for a doctor as I was just desperate for these women to leave me alone. I was eventually examined by a Doctor and found to have an infection at which point the two witches finally gave up.

I genuinely do not understand why women such as the horrendous midwives I encountered who clearly have no compassion or interest in women’s well-being chose their profession. I don’t get it. The pay isn’t amazing so what do they get out of it?

Hugs to everyone who had terrible post birth care. Reading this thread makes me realise I got off lightly

This is why I stayed at home.

I agree that kindness costs nothing but budget cuts can make it hard to be kind.

To clarify none of this is the pregnant womens fault, and i agree with the talking to pals style advice. Im also not a.midwife but know a good few, and work else where health care wise often on the "worst day" end

Budget cut, poor staffing etc make it really hard to do my job. When im with my patient on one of the most significant days of their life my head is filled with a million things eg the other people im meant to be caring for
Feeling unable to admit this patient sometimes due to physical resources like no bed to admit them to, but often due to things like staff being unable to care for an additional person.
Im often stressed, flitting from one person to another without any time to sit and process whats happening. For instance yesterday i went from someone who was calling me incompetent and put in a complaint because i wasnt able to precribe they wanted (went against trust policy) really heated conversation , immediately to another lady who was grieving for her father.

Often days are like that, the day that is most significant to my patient is no different from any other day to me because the pressure is relentless. So i do sympathise with the midwives that are always reported to be "gossiping" and drinking tea and wonder if they have to take that time, because there will be no break. I work in the community and im beginning to take the pill simply because im fed up of being unable to stop to change my sanitary wear. Thats in the community. I work in a non urgent service.

There is often so much pressure that people take it out on the wrong person. Its no excuse but its what happens. I like to think im kind, but actually wonder if my patients would say differently and that makes me really sad

This is why I only had one baby. Couldn’t go through the awfulness of the midwives and doctors ever again.

My care after my babies arrived was good. It was horrible being on the noisy busy wards but the nurses were lovely and did help me in lots of ways, with feeding and helping with the babies while I showered.

My labour experience wasn't good either time. I still feel ashamed and that I wasn't good at it. The first time they were annoyed that I was sick and that my waters made a mess. They left me alone for hours. I thought I was going to die. I knew he wasn't going to come.out but they just came in every now and then and ratched up the induction machine. It was very frightening. Ended up in last minute dash to theatre. Same with the second. Booked in for elective section. Went into laboui. They persuaded me to try for natural. Again I knew he was stuck or I wasn't opening up, but they wouldn't listen. Told me off, said you can't just click your fingers and get what you want. Many hours later another dash to theatre, and this time the doctor said I was right, he was stuck. I'm thankful. I know me and my babies would have died in years gone by. But apart from the major most important part of having healthy babies at the end of it, my births were bad experiences.

Please dont think im excusing poor care.
I just think its not so simple as kindness costs nothing

I worry that all to often theres a pressure to write health care staff off as "bad and illsuited", rather than looking for the environmental reasons why such a high proportion of them appear to be chosing to graduate in this subject (presumably being kind and enthusiastic) to then leave the profession in droves, and the experience of care like above to be so common?

Of course there are rude mean people in any profession that are just like that, but why is it so common now to encounter it?

These stories are horrific. What I don't understand is that so often people say it is to do with staffing levels but so often people recount how there are midwifes standing around chatting, ignoring buzzers, being unnecessarily rude so it must be the culture on the wards and bad uncaring staff that just trot out that they are rushed off their feet to avoid doing anything. I do agree with many that men after abdominal surgery would not be treated like this.

I had a bad experience having my daughter with the care on the ward afterwards. In comparison, I had to have a mastectomy two years later and I could not believe how nice all the nurses were in comparison! They helped me have a shower! They brought me food! It almost feels that midwives are a bit desensitised to how traumatic giving birth can be.

@Wishforsnow I agree I started off in a MLU, I was literally the one woman in there, let alone the only one in labour. There was only one midwife on duty, but as soon as I was in active labour another was called in. Both failed to notice my baby was in distress and that I needed medical intervention (shoulder dystocia), and as soon as handover came in the morning, the oncoming midwife without even examining me called for an emergency transfer. If 2 people tending to 1 woman are too busy to notice or listen, I'll be damned. On the postnatal word the care was rubbish, understandable in some instances as they did look run off of their feet; but again, their attitude and refusal to check my blood loss or change my catheter was inexcusable. They spent longer trying to explain how it isn't their job, and had ample time to berate me.

@Fallofrain I was the one who mentioned gossiping and coffee breaks. I should have been clearer, in my experience this is the culture on wards in several different hospitals and trusts.

The A&E staff I've observed on my many long hours sat with DM or DF go above and beyond with their care and compassion. I don't know how or even if they have time for a wee or a cuppa.

The Community Nurses who looked after my late DSF and now my DM are brilliant. Without a doubt they are overworked and cover far too big a geographical area.

Its not about funding. The nurses and midwives are cruel. I assume new ones are trained to also be uncaring. We all know what they say. The PP above re clots demonstrated this sentiment.

My first birth I had 3rd degree tears and baby had shoulder dysmorphia. I was left alone for hours and hours and had to hobble to get toast while baby was in SCBU. They "would take me down when they had time, if they could find a wheelchair". It was quite far away in hospital as I was on ward. I was so alone and scared for baby and they treated me like an annoying inconvenience. I was like this for days.

My second i was induced for 3 days but it didnt work and i kept on coming in and out of v painful labour. Only to be not in labour / 0cm next morning. Had CS which was ok but post natal care also awful like above PP.. Rude cruel bitchy 'care' having to care for baby alone even though my arms and legs didnt work. Starving and dehydrated. I will never forget the pain, heaving my carcass of an immobile body to get to my baby, streaming with tears (both of us). By far worse thing in my life. Terrified for baby, no care from staff,( harsh mocking etc) fainting and limbs immobile.

I had pretty poor care for my first child. I had an EMCS, which didn't go perfectly and was left in blood stained sheets for days, shouted at for crying and not given food until breakfast when I hadn't eaten for around 25 hours. The one thing I really get annoyed about though was the lack of support for breastfeeding. DS was given formula while I was sleeping the first night because they 'thought I needed the rest'. I apparently gave consent for this while in a morphine haze, which I don't remember.
Once I could move again I tried to bf but DS had jaundice and the Dr insisted he was given formula again. He never really took to bf ing and I had to eventually give up around 3 months in. I was given no guidance and I now know the latch was wrong and he wasn't getting enough.

Contrast with DD two years later. We were posted to a major European city (DH in military) and I went to a local hospital.
On DDs first night I was having trouble bf, DD was getting very upset so I called a midwife for help. She actually came within 2 minutes and spoke English to me. She sat with me for ages trying to get DD to latch but it wasn't going well because my milk wasn't flowing and DD wasn't co-operating. The MW rigged up a feeding tube from my nipple to a bottle of formula so DD and I could practice. It worked and DD calmed down straight away. She had just been hungry
I had this for one night and when a different midwife came on shift in the morning, she had been briefed on the situation. She gave me BF lessons guidance until she was sure I was doing it right.
The care there was great. I had physiotherapy to help retrain my pelvic floor, the MWs bathed the babies, taught baby care and didn't look stressed. There were enough MWs on shift to cover everything.
DD Bfed until she was around two, so that help was invaluable. I just wish the NHS could do the same. I am sure most MWs here would love to give that level of care if they could but they don't seem to be given the time.

When I had my first baby at 17, the midwife told me to shut up and that I was a stupid little girl as I was pushing. I wasn't even making a lot of noise, just normal level moans.

The next day a nurse came around and without explaining what she was doing asked me to lie on my side. She put her fingers in my bum (which they didn't do with my second DD) and whilst examining me, told me I should go around schools telling kids why not to have a baby young.

No support breastfeeding.

My second experience was much better. I did have an argument with a nurse who was very snappy about me asking for new sheets as mine where blood soaked, but I think my hormones made that feel worse.

Can't believe there are so many horrendous stories.

I could go on and on about the terrible care I received whilst having ds2 - I have to sue apparently if I even want a debrief according to PALs - but the worse thing was been ordered to get up and shower within a minute of the placenta being delivered then being told to sit on a hard plastic stacking chair in the corridor of the Labour rooms. My baby had been taken to SCBU at 31 weeks and I didn’t even know if he was alive and I had to listen to excited fathers announcing new ones and see new mums cuddling and feeding when doors open it was awful. The unit was not full - I could see the board. I was not even offered a cup of water. It’s seven years ago and I still want to cry

It’s appalling how women are treated when at their most vulnerable. These stories are horrific.

For those who are saying they think there is a link between the levels of postnatal care and PND, I’ve long thought the same. My PND after my experience was dreadful. I didn’t have the same experience with my first, but it wasn’t on the NHS.

I’m now expecting again and the experience has haunted me in many ways, from unpleasant flashbacks to full blown panic attacks when entering L&D.

I had PTSD and PND, the first definitely directly linked to my care and treatment at the birth. The PND, quite possibly linked.

Such a sad point in my life, the lowest and most degraded I've ever been.