to think the natural birth at all costs ideology is fucking crackers?

[burnagirl]

We have a scandal on our hands. Shrewsbury Maternity Unit.

I couldn't believe what I was reading, but to be honest, I wasn't all that surprised, having had many a run in with the natural birthers/earth mothers in the past.

There is a toxic and insidious ideology permeating the 'birth culture' in the UK. This culture that tells women that our bodies were 'made' to give birth, that our bodies KNOWWWW what to do, that any intervention means failure on our part. That childbirth pain is something to be endured with happiness and joy - I mean, really? Is it some sort of a more 'noble' pain? Something transcendental and sacred and good?

Nah, fuck off with that. You wouldn't have a root canal with no pain relief, so WHY do we fetishise female suffering in childbirth? To me, there's this mile-wide misogynistic miasma around this narrative, probably rooted in religion.

Then there's this totally daft idea of intervention/c-section being a failure. Such bollocks. We don't seem to realise that, from an evolutionary perspective, it isn't even necessary for MOST mothers to survive childbirth. All we need is ENOUGH mothers and babies to survive, so no, our bodies are not sacred temples that somehow magically Know Best.

Can we please do away with the woo around childbirth and just do what needs to be done to ensure that mothers and babies come out of the (let's face it, fucking painful and dangerous) process alive and well, however the hell it happens?

I had a natural birth but did have epidural. My midwife was so great, she was telling me to let them know anytime I need an epidural top up because nobody will make me a statue if I endure the pain. These were exactly her words. Everyone should give birth the way they want or can. If you choose to give birth in the middle of the forest I don't think you are more of a woman or a better mother than the rest.

I wanted to give birth naturally and ended up having emergency c-sections with the first two and elective c-sections with the last two. The risks of c-section going wrong are much higher than a vaginal delivery but ultimately it was the only way my kids were going to come out safely. I didn’t feel a failure, I really didn’t care. 😊

Lets not forget the traumatic birth injuries that women endure that are rarely mentioned. How many women sufferer tears, prolapses, haemorrhage and incontinence - some severe enough to be life threatening or life changing.

Home births strike me as ludicrous "look at me" steps away from martyrdom. I don't get why people would choose to be so relaxed about such a potentially deadly process.
I had an epidural after being induced. It was a long process but my birth plan included that I would take what pain relief was available. I knew when I really got into it, that I would need an epidural. So when I was taken to a labour room set up for a birth on my hands and knees, foam couches and shit, I made them take it out and get a bed. When my son had difficulties that required forceps, I was in the right place, with pain relief in place and I'm grateful, but I still feel like a chicken, who couldn't handle a "natural birth".

“ But I didn’t fail because I delivered two, healthy, clever kids. Anyone says I failed can kiss my fat arse.”

Well, if I wanted to I could say you were saying that if your children hadn’t been healthy and clever you would failed. But I wouldn’t-because it would be untrue and an arsehole thing to say. But you can see how these things happen.....

There’s nothing look at me about a home birth. Who else cares. It’s personal.

It’s not anti science to not want to be cut open with a c section if it can be avoided.

This thread is making me glad there is a positive narrative around natural birth. Look at the ire it brings out.

Well said OP.

So happy to hear and see that so many people have this opinion. I could never say this among my friends though. I had a clear notice that I wanted an epidural on both births, got them and as a result have pretty happy memories. Think the “no drugs” crew are nut jobs!

People take it way too personally that others don’t have pain relief. Odd.

This thread is making me glad there is a positive narrative around natural birth. Look at the ire it brings out.

I honestly believe that's because it's presented as the only way to do it. I've been told multiple times I didn't give birth, some as blunt as that, others in more subtle ways such as "you'd want to give birth this time" when pregnant with dc2. I have always supported my friends and family in their choices whether that's hoping for a vba2cs (and should she get pregnant again, with the vba3cs she's hoping for) or with home births. However as someone who decided because of my personal history and experiences that I wanted an elective with dc2, I didn't get much if any in return because virtually everyone who brought up thought I should be pursuing this magical vaginal birth. Even the midwives who discharged me with dc2 pointed out that I'd likely go into labour ahead of a planned section again and thus would have an easy chance at a vba2cs.

I had two homebirths and one in hospital, @stereolovely - and I can assure you I chose the homebirths after a lot of thought and research, and because I felt it was the best place for me, after my experience of a hospital birth.

I knew that I could be in the maternity unit of my local hospital in under 10 minutes if necessary, and my community midwives were experienced at home births, and I trusted them implicitly.

And they were wonderful experiences. The hospital birth wasn't a bad one, but I have very long labours, and dh was sent home during my first labour, leaving me alone, in a side room, labouring all night, which was not a nice experience. My labours at home were still long, but I was more relaxed, as I was in my own environment, and dh could be there with me too.

It's not for everyone, but I think you are rather rude to dismiss all home births as attention-seeking behaviour!

I felt shame about having an epidural for my first birth. My second was shorter and almost ended up with an emergency c section. On neither occasion did I manage, according to the wisdom of Sheila Kissinger, to open like a peony!

Think the “no drugs” crew are nut jobs!

Deliberately emotive no? To state someone who might want to birth a different way is a “nut job”.

Home births strike me as ludicrous "look at me" steps away from martyrdom. I don't get why people would choose to be so relaxed about such a potentially deadly process. This is very ill informed @stereolovely. If you bothered to read the research, rather than quoting personal anecdotes, you'd find that for low risk women in second and subsequent pregnancies a planned home birth has better outcomes for mother and baby. The Birthplace study of 2011 gives a good overview. And there are actually iatrogenic risks for low risk women birthing in hospital. Of course high risk pregnancies need a planned hospital birth, but it's rather rude to rubbish women who do the research and make an informed choice for a home birth.

I had an emcs for my first baby after 3 day labour, I reached fully dilated and pushed for what felt like forever, but ended up with failed forceps attempt and down for surgery. Son didn't feed after birth due to be so stressed, and lost 14% of his body weight. We both also got septicemia. Midwives after were unsympathetic and despite me needing support told me I was only upset because, and I quote 'I didn't get the birth I clearly expected from watching labour on tv'. I still feel like a failure 2 years later and am sadly now 32 weeks pregnant and tying myself up in knots how to give birth. Consultant says ELCS is perfectly fine, everyone else is taking a dim view. I feel like I cannot make the right decision either way. Labour now terrifies me because I feel like I have let myself and my son down. I know its a societal thing but still people need to recognise the damage that off hand comment's can make.

I should've said I am in double figures for the amount of women who have since made comments like 'it was different for you. you didn't give birth properly' when discussing labour...

Natural birth works well in the vast majority of cases

What do you mean by “works well”? If someone delivers a live baby but ends up incontinent, with prolapse, or bad tearing, do you think that has worked well? It cannot be said the vast majority escape without those as they’re really common injuries.

Because I don’t really think such births have worked that well, but it seems the NHS disagrees.

Labour now terrifies me because I feel like I have let myself and my son down. I know its a societal thing but still people need to recognise the damage that off hand comment's can make.

That was very similar to what happened to me and there was a marked difference between one lovely midwife who said "Oh honey, you basically gave birth twice" and the rest of them. Stupidly enough, it's the rest of them whose comments have stuck with me too.

When I had my babies (2009 and 2011), there was a narrative among the caseload midwife team and local mums to be that home birth or the midwife led home from home unit were 'lovely' and the labour ward was 'awful'. The local antenatal yoga teacher was also insistent we push back on any hint of induction, intervention etc. We were spoon fed Ina May Gaskin.

The caseload midwives were home birth advocates and very strongly skewed their best care towards the low risk women.

I wasn't low risk either time (excess fluid, small pelvis, both babies 14 days plus over my due date) and I felt thrown to the lions by them, quite honestly, but still felt I had to fight for the most natural experience I could, otherwise I'd have 'failed'.

I (misguidedly) fought not to be induced, with two very late babies, which could have had dire consequences.

I'll never really know... but my first had an APGAR of 1 when she was finally delivered, in theatre via forceps, after shoulder dystocia. She was ok after a week in hospital, but is now being assessed for ASD and has a number of sensory issues plus low muscle tone. I had a 3B tear that has left permanent damage.

And my second, well, he ended up with oxygen deprivation, another theatre assisted birth, and has such severe disabilities he can't walk or talk, and has epilepsy.

I wish to god I had never listened to all that home birth and natural delivery nonsense and just asked for c sections both times. Maybe the outcomes would have been the same, maybe not, but I feel I took stupid risks because I was led to believe the Ina May Gaskin dream...

I think a predictable and routine, if major, planned surgery is far safer than a notoriously unpredictable vaginal delivery.

Is this view from lots of personal experiences?

My 4th baby was c-section. My baby got stuck during the 'routine surgery' you describe, took an hour of pulling, twisting and tugging to free her enough to get her out. Then they couldnt stop the bleeding. There went another hour and a specialist rushed to the theatre to help. Followed by another hour to see me back up. And to top it all off I got sepsis from being operated on for so long, ended up in high dependency and unable to care for my own baby. Recovery has been fucking awful and nearly 5 months on my wound has opened up for the 5th time and I'm on my 4th dose of antibiotics to help it heal.

Yep, major surgery is best

My first 3 babies were vaginal deliveries. No issues. Yep they hurt but the pain ended when they came out. C-section was my big mistake.

@stereolovely my niece chose a homebirth for her baby after a great deal of research and thought.

She had several hospital admissions as a child and hospitals make her anxious. She had a healthy low risk pregnancy. There was certainly no "look at me" about her decision.

I was with her through the night along with two lovely midwives. It was a straightforward first stage but the baby didn't descend during second stage.

She transferred to hospital at that point and accepted the intervention needed. Team work between midwives and obstetricians.

Baby safely delivered by Caesarean section.

I've never delivered a baby at home whose parents had not done a great deal of thinking about that decision. Research is key and homebirth is a safe option for many women.

I'm no longer a midwife but I've delivered babies at homes, in tents, in water (at home and in hospital) and obviously many many babies in hospitals.

Women should give birth where they feel safest. For some that will be hospital with every bit of pain relief on offer. For others it will be at home. My role isn't to judge but to support the decision with appropriate information about risk as needed.

I actually asked for intervention as I have fibromyalgia and I also had spd. I had it in my birthing plan and I felt much more in control than during my previous labour

I agree. I had a horrific hospital birth to a premature baby because they said I wasn't in Labour and he was better off inside me. I was ignored through the Labour and my baby wasn't monitored. Luckily he survived.

So now people who want home births are attention seeking, those who want to avoid pain relief drugs are "nut jobs" and natural birth is "nonsense".

Yeah, theres totally no judgement on this thread though