to think the natural birth at all costs ideology is fucking crackers?

[burnagirl]

We have a scandal on our hands. Shrewsbury Maternity Unit.

I couldn't believe what I was reading, but to be honest, I wasn't all that surprised, having had many a run in with the natural birthers/earth mothers in the past.

There is a toxic and insidious ideology permeating the 'birth culture' in the UK. This culture that tells women that our bodies were 'made' to give birth, that our bodies KNOWWWW what to do, that any intervention means failure on our part. That childbirth pain is something to be endured with happiness and joy - I mean, really? Is it some sort of a more 'noble' pain? Something transcendental and sacred and good?

Nah, fuck off with that. You wouldn't have a root canal with no pain relief, so WHY do we fetishise female suffering in childbirth? To me, there's this mile-wide misogynistic miasma around this narrative, probably rooted in religion.

Then there's this totally daft idea of intervention/c-section being a failure. Such bollocks. We don't seem to realise that, from an evolutionary perspective, it isn't even necessary for MOST mothers to survive childbirth. All we need is ENOUGH mothers and babies to survive, so no, our bodies are not sacred temples that somehow magically Know Best.

Can we please do away with the woo around childbirth and just do what needs to be done to ensure that mothers and babies come out of the (let's face it, fucking painful and dangerous) process alive and well, however the hell it happens?

Dinosaur I’m so reading that. It’s awful. And I completely understand you would feel traumatised I would, many would.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils I too am really sorry to hear you suffered so much. Such things should never happen to women during labour and birth but, sadly, women not being listened to and allowed to make informed choices seems all too common in the country.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils I think that’s spot on- changing the culture so that women are actually respected, are given truly balanced and accurate information openly and honestly and are simply LISTENED to will improve things massively- whether that is a woman wanting or not wanting a certain intervention.

In this particular scandal it looks as though not listening to women, taking a disrespectful and dehumanised approach to maternity care was also a key factor. Yet the conversation just seems to focus solely on a simplified ‘natural vs medicalised birth’ angle, which is really just about whether women are being told they’re ‘allowed/not allowed’ to do the right things or whether they should be ‘allowed/not allowed’ to do a separate list of things instead. It doesn’t address the wider problems of maternity care.

I needed intervention with every birth - one kiwi, one shoulder dystocia, one death picked up at second trimester scan that needed my labour starting and one c-section that also needed forceps as he was stuck in my pelvis.
I didn’t have a birth plan for any of my children. I just wanted them all here safely. I’m not disappointed with any of my births nor do I feel a failure because of the interventions.

However, I do quietly seethe at women who, in my eyes, do not think of the consequences of their choices. Especially those who willingly go over 41 weeks.

@StrawberryGoo I'm sorry to hear that but do understand. It's the lack of control once you start a VB that puts me off (outside of the risks). I guess that's why this is such a difficult topic because your 'choices' stop being choices pretty quickly.

Mine was always going to be a cascade of intervention. Even when the doctors were trying to convince me to go no CS, what they offered was induction with vbac and a high likelihood of EmCS. Still I had to fight for my ELCS. The MLU, rightly wouldn't touch me with a barge pole.

I should not have had to fight. I should not have been put under such stress. I should have been listened to.

Dione

Thank you Bing. But those lovely flowers should go to every unlistened to, pregnant woman. Every birth should have the woman at the centre of care.

I despair that in 2019 we're still fighting for this: Every birth should have the woman at the centre of care

The unseen damage of this not happening is lasting lifetimes

Reviving this thread as the story is back in the news today. It’s utterly devastating and a scandal. Have any staff even been sacked?

Hundreds of babies died. Women not listened to. Utterly devastating. Women are never heard. Heads should roll in the NHS for this.

But nobody ever gives a damn when it’s women and children affected.

If I'd adhered to it I'd be dead. That's one of the reasons that the rate of maternal death was so high in the past. However it's equally possible to go too far the other way. In the US the options are,or were last time I watched an American birth programme , either nothing or epidural which in turn leads to emcs or elective csections.

I'm not saying that sections are a bad thing but to not have medical options other than it is forcing women to have surgery that there may no be any need for.

I had an elective c section. For no reason than I didn’t fancy a vaginal birth. I didn’t breastfeed either, zero interest. Wasn’t that I couldn’t, or the milk didn’t come, or I had mastitis, I just didn’t fancy it, plain and simple.
I had no idea before I had kids how much mum shaming goes on and it starts before they’ve even given birth.
I’m lucky in that I am strong and fairly pushy and would never be made feel shame in educated choices I’ve made. I lied and manipulated the system to get an ELCS. I said whatever it took. But I shouldn’t have had to do that.
I encourage anyone who doesn’t want to give birth vaginally to do the same.
It saddens me when women say how proud they are of themselves to have given birth without pain relief. Like, why?

You should be simply proud that you've had a child, not the method of birth. The method doesn't matter, a c section baby is just the same as a vaginal one. A no drugs birth is just the same as a drugs birth. You all had a child from it. You're not better than anyone else for the way you went. If you want drugs, have them. If you want a c section, have one.

Me personally? I'm a complete wimp about pain and I feel pain a lot more than others, if I was having a baby, by god you can bet every drug in that hospital would be mine and they would be doing a c section after knocking me out. 😂 Who cares? You still get a baby at the end of it. Can you tell which ones were delivered by c section and which vaginally in the playground? No.

Couldn't. Agree. More.

I actually find it petrifying that we're in 2020 and women are still not 100% in control of the choices over their own body. The issue is endemic in our entire society though - not just in the healthcare system. Look up any article online, from any source, about birth choices and the underlying tone of all is that intervention is negative. Personally, I can't even consider pain-relief as 'intervention' - it should be a given. However, whilst I had a 'natural' pool birth with my first with just G&A it wasn't my first choice of birth plan - No, my plan had the words EPIDURAL all over it! Honestly, if I'd have thought it was possible, I'd have simply requested an ELCS off the bat, but knew this wouldn't work with my trust. During the labour things were going well in the pool but the pain was getting to the point where it was contractions on top of each other and was overwhelming - I turned to the midwife and said I'd like to get out the pool now so I can get an epidural. I was given the classic response of 'no, you're doing so well, keep going and see how you get on'...... well then it was too late.

Yes, I managed to cope without it - but the question here is should I have? Why leave women to 'just about cope' when we live in a society with access to adequate pain relief? Why aren't women's pain relief requests honored during labour?

Now pregnant again and requesting a section!

I am completely in favour of people who CHOOSE to have a natural birth for whatever reason, PROVIDED they have chosen that because it means something to them personally and not because the media or medical industry has pushed them into believing this is the superior birth to have.