Vegetarians shouldn't have to buy meat?

[Whuut]

So a relative of mine is getting married next year and her and her partner went vegetarian a few years ago for many reasons, one being they didn't want to contribute to the meat industry. They have decided at the wedding to have the meal completely vegetarian. I think this is fine and for one meal people can deal without meat- I do get that some people struggle without it but I think for the sake of one meal at someone else's wedding, you'd just deal with it. What I think is harsh, a few other family members are constantly telling her they should have a meat option and making her feel bad about their decision.

Aibu to think they shouldn't have to have meat at their wedding when one of the main reasons they gave it up was to do with not wanting to contribute to the industry?

There's a reason why mediocre chicken/ beef roasts are a wedding staple, not because the masses tend to be deeply enthused by them, but because they tend to be inoffensive to the majority of omnivores. There will normally be enough variety on the plate for people to pick a reasonable portion out of food they will eat. It's straight forward to account for allergens/ intolerances and tends to work for sensory issues.

Vegetarian food has great potential to be a lot nicer than a mass-produced roast, but there is a lot more scope for issues with allergens/ intolerances from the way foods are combined, sensory issues from food combinations and strongly polarised likes/ dislikes (mushrooms, quorn, spice, goats cheese being common complaints). Some people are very unadventurous and like to rigidly stick to known, traditional choices.

Know your audience. Are they open minded or quite rigid about food?

I had a very pleasant mostly vegetarian (and dry ) month in India, I like spices, the food was well balanced and satisfying with fats and protein. In the UK, I can find some vegetarian dishes a bit light and lacking in sustainance. I have to be careful with dairy content and avoid soya which significantly reduces common vegetarian options. So I would be cautious about a vegetarian menu, and not because surviving a day without meat is a problem in itself. Hopefully it would be nicer than bland chicken, and not cause me digestive distress into the evening, but there is more risk.

Most vegetarians don't want to be given 'a roast/carvery meal but with no meat'

That is one of my favourite meals ever. Especially with bread sauce

I love this!! So long as there are Yorkshire puddings!

That's me wrong, then! As a meat eater, the veg (especially the roast potatoes) and Yorkshire puddings are definitely by far the best bit

“ I'd say avoid risotto or bake as it's usually just slop”

Presumably a meat/fish risotto would not be “slop” though!

I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to buy meat if they didnt want to. In practical terms, tell people in advance so anyone feeling the need for alternative provisions can make arrangements. I'd probably do a very mainstream starter like tomato soup too.

I'm curious, by your logic that plants are as sentient as animals in their own way, does that mean that if it is ok to eat animals, it is also ok to eat people?....

Ethically, do you feel it is better to eat a person who has been hit by a car than to pull a plant out of the ground?

No, I wouldn't extend it to people as, mainly for reasons given by Aurynne, cannibalism is a taboo in our society and eating other people of our own species is not biologically a good idea.

The main other reason is that people are individually loved and owned (in a family/relationship rather than slavery sense). If a bus knocks down and kills a pedestrian and you run straight over with a knife and fork and your napkin on, you will cause horrendous traumas for the person's loved ones. In the same way, I wouldn't advocate eating a pet that had been run over - not because of its species, but because it is acknowledged, owned and loved by somebody.

However, a wild animal that isn't owned by anybody (or one that is, by an untraceable person, but almost certainly as livestock rather than as a companion), I wouldn't see the problem. Purely ethically speaking, if a fox has taken a chicken and you find and eat it, you haven't killed or sanctioned the killing of anything; if you pull up crops for food, then you have. Also, the dead chicken probably won't have been sprayed with pesticides to kill off insects so as to reserve the food for YOUR own species' pleasure, unlike the crops.

I think they might be, BertrandRussell.
Never tried them to know, but presenting a Tuna Bake could have disastrous results.

So you’re saying that risotto is slop without trying it.....

I don't eat meat or fish so I have no idea what a risotto made with those would be like.
I have eaten risotto at weddings and it's been disappointing. I wouldn't choose risotto in particular mushroom risotto.
I've also had a something bake at a wedding and elsewhere, ok but just ok.

Sorry, Mike, I misunderstood you!

Major risotto fan here....

I really like risotto but imagine a mass catered version might be quite easy to mess up. Its probably nicer if they're just doing it for like 7 out of 60 veggies at a wedding than if everyone is having it!

Good risotto is great. Sloppy rice or congealed rice with bits in or on pretending to be risotto isn't.

True. I’ve made it for 20 and that was fine. Needed two pots though.

As long as the options weren't cheese, cheese, cheese cheese or cheese, I don't see the problem. It's one meal.

This thread has gone bonkers. But I remain unconvinced that a carrot and a cow have the same capacity for suffering.

If I was catering for a vegetarian wedding, I think I’d serve a choice of spring vegetable risotto or a reasonably substantial salad for starters, then a choice of individual pithiviers or miso roast aubergines for main course. With roast broccoli, salad and little potatoes. And then Eton Mess or chocolate mousse for pudding. I’d certainly enjoy eating that.

BertrandRussell can I come to your wedding. That sounds delicious.

Yes that sounds good and you could always tweak the chocolate mousse slightly and be able to offer an option that was completely vegan.

But you'd still get moans from the 'need a lump of meat, don't like all that veg' crowd

I’ve catered for dinner parties with a very similar menu- I’m doing one for Christmas soon with a chestnut and cranberry filling for the pithiviers - probably with a port sauce.

As long as the options weren't cheese, cheese, cheese cheese or cheese, I don't see the problem. It's one meal.

It sounds like we may have gone to the same wedding at one time.

Nothing to eat apart from a ton of cheese (different varieties) with a single packet of cream crackers and a bunch of grapes shared between all the guests.

It's only one meal to go without meat.
Would anyone really complain if the food was tasty and filling?

When I eat out I am often disappointed by my meal because of it being being a plate of veg with the main item being low in protein or insubstantial, or by being faced with a menu with the same old offerings.

A nice yummy risotto, pithivers, eton mess or chocolate mousse ....mmm

I see the dissenting voices on this thread (thankfully the minority) are trotting out the same tired old lines about vegetarians ‘expecting special catering, so why won’t they do the same for meat eaters?’ I can’t believe people really fail to see the difference between a moral objection to eating meat and being a meat eater who simply doesn’t fancy a nut roast. I understand that you might think with a wedding that, because they don’t have to cook it, they should be happy to offer meat, but I’ve even seen people on this thread expecting vegetarians to prepare and cook meat! Would you really want your friends or family members to do something they find abhorrent just because you feel like you should have meat at every meal if you want it?

I’ve been vegetarian for 33 years. The thought of cooking meat makes me feel physically sick. Why would someone I care enough about to invite for dinner want me to feel like that? That’s before you even get to the practicalities. I don’t even know HOW to cook meat. What if don’t cook it properly and my guest gets ill? Or, less extreme, I simply don’t cook it well and they don’t enjoy it anyway? Surely it would be better if I served them something I know is good and properly prepared.

Being a good host doesn’t have to mean compromising what matters to you. Look how many people, vegetarian or otherwise, on here have said they don’t like mushrooms. If I knew a friend didn’t like them, I wouldn’t cook them. However, I wouldn’t compromise my principles just in case a meat eater couldn’t cope for one meal without meat.

For all the ‘It’s about being a considerate host’ crowd, don’t you also want to be considerate guests? Would you really enjoy your meal knowing you’d made a fuss and forced your hosts to go against their principles? That doesn’t sound like the kind of guest I’d want.

I didn't say anything about vegetarian expectations at other food events when I said I was on the fence. I just know people who would feel anxiety at lack of meat at a main meal. People are weird about food.

Animal rights proponents may believe they are doing something morally superior, but they don't convince me that they are. I'm not giving their 'moral position' any credit.

As ever, this thread reminds me, some people assuming I was an animal rights extremist is a big factor in why I ceased to be a vegetarian.

@BarbaraofSeville

But that's kinda my point. For a long time, veggie food was the poor relation and you were lucky if the place you were eating even had a veggie option which is where a lot of meat eaters will have formed their opinions of veggie food.

If you look at the menu and see risotto or I dunno, beans on toast every time as the veggie option it's probably not creating a good impression when in reality there's loads of choice and it cane be delicious.

So you’re saying that risotto is slop without trying it

It's rare to eat a proper, well made risotto.

QM. Oh, I see, I didn't realise that I was arguing with people who are still in the 1980s, what with them not having the internet then and all.