To think it can cost a fortune to keep up appearances?

[ethelfleda]

Talking to my friend this evening...
Her and her partner are wonderful, very down to earth and not at all materialistic.
However, his family are (in his own words) trying so hard to show everyone they have a bit of money that they’ve nearly spent all their money doing so!
Seems like a bit of a paradox to me. AIBU to think that in some instances, those that go for outward displays of wealth actually aren’t that wealthy?

I know quite a few people who view cars as status symbols, for example. The nicer that car, the wealthier they must be. But surely, if you have a fairly regular income and decent enough credit score, a new car is within your grasp - you just need to finance it? Your name brand clothes can be put on credit cards and you can mortgage up to your eyeballs to get a 4 bed detached house (in the area we live, it’s possible to get a very nice 3 bed semi with a large garden for £200k so am not talking about people living further south here that have little choice but to get the highest mortgage they can)

What do you think?

formerbabe

@BarbaraofSeville and such an insignificant purchase that it's barely worth mentioning to your wife grin

To be absolutely fair, I thing she said “leased”...

A little off topic but the way people endlessly replace things baffles me a little. I was talking to my DP the other day and was saying how our TV wasn't that old (7 years or so I think) and he informed me that it's apparently totally normal to replace TVs every 2 years (he say his DB does that). I don't remember my DPs every replacing our TV when I was younger, maybe once. And buying all new furtniture every time you move: madness.

That...old money will judge you for having a new car because really, all that matters is which school you went to and how RP your accent is?

Exactly.

In reality plenty of our neighbours in our big new builds with white Range Rovers on the drive are solid business people or well paid professionals. Sorry to disappoint the envious but it’s not on finance.

Yup. My neighbours think I'm a lazy cow who doesn't work.

How a household operates its finances differs. Just because you (general) cannot afford something, doesn't automatically mean it's all on credit for someone else.

Sales, cashback deals, looking around for deals etc can make things out of your reach reachable without the need for finances.

And as for savings. I learned a long time ago to always say I haven't got any. Or I might laugh and say yea if you call a tenner savings.

Haha not saying I've never got things on credit. I have at times when I knew I could pay it without paying the interest. I'm not going to lose out on a bargain for the sake of being a bit short of savings at the time. But to others, this could be interpreted as keeping up with appearances.

To be absolutely fair, I thing she said “leased”

Because a committment of what, £5/600 pm is barely worth mentioning?

People replace their TV every 2 years? Why?? I can't get my head round how anyone would ever think that was necessary or desirable.

We might get some new furniture when we move, but we spent 12 years in house 1 and we're coming up to 14 years in house 2, and have no plans to move any time soon.

I think it's none of my business how other people manage their lives and finances and I am in no way morally superior to others because I have no debt.

Why mention it?

I was friends with a couple they weren't snobby but seemingly leading the high life. When they split she confided that their house was rented & they were constantly avoiding debt collectors. It shocked & saddened me, they were both on good salaries for the area so if they'd been bit more frugal maybe could've got sorted.

It appeared to be husband trying to maintain status that matched his big job, she certainly enjoyed the finer things too but adapted to being poorer post spilt fine, maybe as then fitted in with rest of us.

I've got a mate who has a really good job in banking. He's a major petrol head who loves fully loaded cars and changing them out frequently so he leases them. So what? He's not doing it to show off to others and it's his money. I don't look down on him or accuse him of trying to make others envious because he chooses to lease cars.

Hmm, I suspect that the “Scruffy old money is so much more classy,” brigade like to console themselves that us nouveau types have it all on finance.

This.

The new build estates round here are full of huge, soulless houses with flashy cars on the drive. They attract people who want to show off their supposed wealth, but they’re actually just tacky.

Nothing soulless about my house; it’s light, bright and comfortable and full of my mad, creative, big family. My youngest was born here and FiL died here. Our neighbours seem to be people who want to live their lives rather than spend their weekends endlessly renovating and repairing.

And yes, we like nice cars.

DH would lease a car, that’s what he’s talking about. I can’t remember what the brand is, but there’s a brand of car that’s all electric, but very expensive to buy or lease, but then DH was saying that it’s not as expensive overall when you actually look into it because of some tax reductions? So electric cars on lease may not be as expensive as people think?
We do tend to lease the car I have because of depreciation.
Also we’ve had two cars stolen off the drive in five years. My neighbour had one of the black Range Rovers types and it was driven off his drive in broad daylight a couple of weeks ago. No idea how they get in. Apparently they’re in containers to Africa (this is what the police told us) within 12 hours and the car theft gangs have a “shopping list,” so they just drive round looking to fill it.

The new build estates round here are full of huge, soulless houses

My idea of bliss! Made for modern living and appliances, walk in cupboards, rooms big enough for a superking bed, no need to rewire or have to get the plumbing worked on (plenty of sockets), no need to spend time and money on DIY (fucking hate DIY), warm, insulated. Don't really give a fuck if someone else finds it tacky, they can go and freeze in their dusty money pit of a pile.

Love a nice car, too! Fab. Seats are comfy, handsfree music, smooth ride.

Gimme!

Seems this can be a touchy subject for some.
Which is kind of my point, really. People get defensive over what they do or don’t own and how they paid for it.

I certainly wouldn’t think that every single person in a brand new house with a flash car has it all on tick. I’m simply saying that those that do decide to finance these things, simply to keep up appearances when in reality can barely afford it, are doing themselves harm to impress others.
It’s a shame that we live in a culture where people feel threatened to do this.

And by the way, I am neither old money or new money

No idea how they get in.

They hack the car. Even if you put your key/starter in a tin can or one of those protective pouches, they can still hack into the car. The thieves bring a car up usually, hack into the vehicle (and electric ones are also very quite) and turn it on, wait to see if the owner appears, then the getaway driver gets in and steals the car. Job done. Very common.

Seems this can be a touchy subject for some.

only when you touch a nerve!

My attitude to money is having enough to pay essential bills is enough.
The occasional treat is nice, but hardly a treat if you spend money all the time.
I don't spend anything that I don't see coming back, but we are all different.
I don't judge what others do unless they are dicks, or the new money type who think they're it.
I like my old house too, couldn't do with a new shoe box type house where your bed touches most of the walls,with the headboard against the radiator.
Some box rooms aren't even big enough for a bed.
Reminds me of the song "Little boxes" On the hillside, little boxes made of ticky tack, and they all look just the same

DH works in architecture and designs many of the layouts for the larger housing developers. I can tell you that they’re not all created equal! Some of them are shoebox types where the developer has scrimped on everything, some of them are very good quality and a good size etc.

I wouldn’t buy a new house myself, give me something I need to rip apart and make my own!

I think you really can’t tell people’s financial situation from appearances. I’m from a council estate and at kids parties the children are all dressed up in designer clothes and give big gifts to the birthday child. No one would wear second hand.

In the MC area I moved to second hand was de rigur and at kids parties most kids look very scruffy

We don’t have a fancy car (a cheap car that’s 3 years old) but our priority isn’t to show off but to pay mortgage off ASAP and stay out of debt.

only when you touch a nerve!

Definitely!

Yes, I agree OP that it is a pity that people feel they need to spend money they don't have on things they don't need. But, there are a lot of very unpleasant views from PPs on this thread. All the looking down on people because their money is 'new' or laughing at them because they think having a 4x4 means they are rich when everybody knows you have to be at the very least a millionaire to be rich. And all the I just wear scruffy clothes and drive an old car but I walk round smug in the knowledge that I am better than those chavs trying to look nice because I have hoarded hundreds of thousands in my bank account. Yuck! Some PPs are even implying that nobody amounts to anything unless they came from a family with money and had a private education. Some people have made good points about what makes people get into debt they don't need to be in but others have just made for embarrassing reading.

Bigbigboots

I agree. It's the sort of attitude that lets people like Prince Andrew get away with the sort of thing he does.

The Mumsnet obsession with class marking baffles me.

bigboots
Totally agree with your post!

This thread is hilarious! Unintentionally.

The poster who thinks that by leasing a car, she avoids depreciation. What do you think your monthly car payments are covering? Go on, take a guess. It couldn’t be the depreciation on the car , could it? No, surely not!

The people who subscribe to the Jilly Cooper tongue in cheek stereotype of ‘proper’ rich people. They all wear scruffy clothes and drive around in old bangers encrusted in dog hair. All of them. No rich people would buy Louboutins or ‘designer labels’. No. Tell that to Chanel’s clients!

The hilarious stealth boasting: “oh no, I’m not ostentatious. Nobody would ever know that I have hundreds of thousands salted away and could get a £1.3 million mortgage on my FIVE BEDROOMED house”.

The people sneering at new-build houses. Because they are ALL soulless boxes with tiny rooms. Occupied by common people getting above themselves. Yes.

Keep it up!

My view is, provided you’re not simultaneously frittering your cash and whinging that you’ll never be able to retire (“I will have to work until I drop”, the most overused phrase on MN), spend your money as you wish.

The economy and a load of retail and services jobs depend on people spending money, you know. Who cares what the motivation is? We’d be in trouble if everybody wore ancient clothes, never got their nails done or never bought a new car.