Cafe wouldn’t let pregnant woman use toilet

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I’ve just ordered some breakfast for collection from a local cafe round the corner and had a quick flick through the reviews first. The most recent review is:

‘As a heavily pregnant lady went in desperate for the bathroom and they refused to let me use their toilet despite me being in tears and not close to anywhere else open. In a packed shop full of customers, they said no with no heart, no remorse, no feeling. Have never been more horrified, myself and my husband will never be using this place again’

I feel like it’s a bit harsh and the bit about there being nowhere to go close by is very untrue. There’s a Morrison’s maximum 5 minutes walk away with toilets. As a (second time) pregnant woman myself I wouldn’t get annoyed if an establishment didn't let me use staff toilets, I’d just find somewhere with public ones. The cafe gave a long response as to why they couldn’t let her use the bathroom. Mainly because their insurance didn’t cover customers in the staff area of the cafe and there were lots of boxes etc. laid about. If the pregnant woman had hurt herself then it probably wouldn’t have been good for them. They also said they managed to get the keys for the toilet in the opposite pub so it’s not like the reviewer didn’t get to use one. I think it was quite kind of them to go to the effort of making sure she used a bathroom.

Do you think she’s being reasonable or not? I think she’s being a bit U due to there being a Morrison’s so close by! (I’m not the cafe owner just interested in people’s views). My DM thinks they should have let her use it no questions asked purely because she was pregnant, I’m a little unsure

The last non customer I allowed to use our toilet shat all over it and the wall, used majority of toilet roll, stank the place out and walked out. Not even a £1 spend and our only female toilet was out of action to paying customers whilst I had to clean in down. Dirty bitch

Why would she have been in the staff area / near boxes? She would have just used the customer toilets?

Jeezo. Reading skills get worse each day.

THERE WERE NO CUSTOMER TOILETS.

And no, it's not the law that there must me.

I’m confused. People keep talking about her using the customer toilet but it doesn’t mention one anywhere.

It’s totally reasonable for the shop to say no to using the staff toilet. I don’t get why her being pregnant is even relevant.

It's hardly good business practice to run a cafe with no loo. If people stay and buy more drinks from you, they will need a loo.

I bet this was some tiny 'cafe' mainly take outs, and not a place to sit and eat. The places locally I can think of like this are fish and chip shops where there are a handful of tables for anyone who want to eat in but they are hardly cafes- stretching it a bit.

@PurpleDaisies People keep going on about a customer toilet because they don't bother reading the thread properly. Almost every thread I go on, no matter the length of it, it's the same. Drives me mad

I think generally the problem is that a lot of people are yucky! Businesses are aware of this and if they don’t have to let people use their toilets by law, why would they?

I work in a public library and anyone can use the toilet. It is regularly covered in all sorts, sinks and toilets are blocked on a weekly basis. To look at the people going in (they have to ask for the key) you wouldn’t immediately think, he’s going to piss all over the seat, or she’s going to smear blood all over the wall (happens a lot 🤮) for some reason public toilets seem to encourage a level of revoltingness in lots of people.

On the same subject, I live on the route of the great north run and one year a runner asked to use my downstairs toilet. She was fairly fast so clearly cleaning up would have impacted her time. She left shit everywhere. It was disgusting and never will I do that again!

I believe a cafe that seats 10 or more must have a toilet for customers. Very unusual for one not to have one.

@JinglingHellsBells there are plenty of places serving food that have no toilets. I can think of least 3 where I live.

Doesn't stop me using them. I don't need to keep going to the loo even if I have a few drinks. I'm not sure anyone should be accepting that it is normal to not be able to have one or two drinks without needing one. Obviously being pregnant is different

There are always two sides to a story.

Like anyone she is free to use or not use the shop in the future.

Why do so many posters keep insisting that anywhere serving food to eat in has to have toilets

The law is that they do unless they have 10 or fewer seats and the local council agrees that a customer toilet is not required.

I can't believe the people on here saying the woman should not expect to use a loo if she is not a customer. What happened to HUMAN DECENCY??? Some pregnant women are similar to people with conditions that require IMMEDIATE access to a toilet. No one should be refused in these situations. There are times where need supersedes rules. If someone was going to throw up or soil themselves or wet themselves then let them use the freaking loo.

As a PP has said, there are any number of conditions and stages of life that can cause somebody to urgently need a toilet. In fact, everybody, including all without any mitigating factors, has, at one point or another, suddenly felt the urgent necessity to go to the toilet. Is it any more acceptable or pleasant for a non-pregnant, non-IBS-or-Crohns-suffering adult to wet or soil themselves if caught short with no access to a toilet?

Would you agree that people who are desperately hungry with no access to a food bank should routinely go into food shops and ask for a free bagful of food? People with CFS/ME who suddenly get hit by a massive wave of exhaustion (or maybe don't have the condition but merely claim it) should flag down passing drivers and expect them to give them a lift to their destination?

It might be a kind gesture, but the problem is that everybody who asks thinks they're the only one to think to ask and that they are a particularly special case. Also, word spreads and once you get a reputation for letting anybody use your staff toilets if they have (or claim to have) a particular need for it - and simply 'needing a wee or a poo' is a perfectly normal reason for that, so it could apply to anybody - you can end up with a constant stream of people waiting to use it, whether desperate, finding it convenient or thinking they might go a-wandering to see if they can find any valuables.

As PP have said, any one of these can pose an insurance risk (or even just bad publicity for your business if they have an accident using your staff toilet). In addition, a business might find themselves paying a staff member for 20-30 non-productive minutes because they're in a long queue behind members of the public waiting to use their toilet. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that an entitled person could leave a negative review of a business, complaining that there were no staff to assist them - because the staff were all occupied, waiting behind the reviewer's fellow entitled people to use their own staff toilet.

She could have said she needed the toilet before ordering? She could have bought the cheapest thing.

She could have said she needed the toilet before ordering? She could have bought the cheapest thing.

That would not have helped because there was NO CUSTOMER TOILET.

@Beautiful3

She could have said she needed the toilet before ordering? She could have bought the cheapest thing.

Still wouldn't have been able to use the STAFF ONLY toilets.

From the OP As a (second time) pregnant woman myself I wouldn’t get annoyed if an establishment didn't let me use staff toilets

Imabitofanexpertatpeppa

That is grim.

I know it's stating the obvious, but asking if you could 'just' use somebody's toilet is more than a simple favour such as asking for a cup of water or to borrow a pen. It's actually requesting to leave offensive human waste for you to potentially have to clean up. You can never know until it's too late just what the aftermath awaiting you will be.

Not to put too fine a point on it, if somebody has already told you that they're desperate and/or have a health or other compromising condition, I would have thought the chances of their not making it in time or of leaving a massive mess would be significantly greater than that of somebody sensing the bodily need to start thinking about maybe looking for a toilet within the next half hour or so.

Nobody would dream of saying that you should let somebody wearing wellies caked in thick, sloppy mud walk on your carpet in them, yet allowing a stranger to use a private/staff toilet is potentially effectively the same thing - worse, actually, as at least mud doesn't stink.

@lynsey91 You are very lucky. You are also very lacking in knowledge about health conditions.

Are you so unaware of people with IBS, Crohns and overactive bladder? Sometimes, having a drink or something to eat is all that's needed to make people with these conditions need the loo and fast. Are you suggesting people with health conditions should not be able to use a cafe because there is no loo for them?

It's rather disappointing to hear you know nothing of how some people have to try to live with bladder and bowel issues, most of which are unseen- people with them don't go around with a sign on their heads of a disabled sticker but the impact on their lives is that.

It's rather disappointing to hear you know nothing of how some people have to try to live with bladder and bowel issues, most of which are unseen- people with them don't go around with a sign on their heads of a disabled sticker but the impact on their lives is that.

So what is the answer? Does the café/shop worker leave the café, till and stock unattended to supervise the person in the staff area or do they allow a stranger to wander around in the secure area?

JinglingHellsBells

I don't think anybody is saying that sufferers of Crohns, IBS or similar have it easy or should just be forced to either embarrass themselves or never leave their homes. I'm fortunate enough not to suffer from these conditions, but I have severe nerve-damage issues which mean I frequently get the desperate urge all of a sudden.

It's a national disgrace how many local councils have closed down their public toilets, as it's a basic need for everybody and should be a facility available to all as standard in every significantly-busy public location. It is they who should be shamed into reversing their cost-cutting decisions, though - not small business owners; any more than shops should be expected to hand out free groceries and household essentials to bail out the government to those who are victims of their evil policies surrounding UC and PIP, among others.

I can't believe the people on here saying the woman should not expect to use a loo if she is not a customer. What happened to HUMAN DECENCY??? Some pregnant women are similar to people with conditions that require IMMEDIATE access to a toilet. No one should be refused in these situations. There are times where need supersedes rules. If someone was going to throw up or soil themselves or wet themselves then let them use the freaking loo.

I worked in a shoe shop and we often got asked if people could use the toilet but we were told under n circumstances no. No customer toilet only a staff one upstairs and through the stockroom. Insurance said no customers so we had to refuse and some didn't take it well. Some argued for far longer than it would have taken them to cross the street to the nearest department store.

I’m not sure really. Probably a bit of unreasonableness on both sides. However both sides also have a fair point. If they’re (The cafe) aren’t insured and outside users then they’re not insured, and imagine if she fell. They’d get blamed that way.
However as sufferer from incontinence (It’s mainly in the morning, really) a few feet walking to the toilet can be a nightmare let alone a five minute walk to another shop.

Their response would annoy me. No insurance policy has a 'customers in staff area's exclusion. Their own risk assessments might have said it was dangerous. Which is crazy as if there are boxes etc that she could trip on, then this is also a risk to their own staff, who they actually have a higher duty of care to.

Totally not the point of the post I know.

Ok, if people don't open the door for stranger (I understand the reasoning behind this), cafe and shops don't let people use their toilets, then there shouldn't be any laws against public urination. This is local councils job to sort out. I was just starting my experience, I did not demand people to let me use their toilets just asked. We are allowed to asked. You might not like to be asked but I'm allowed to ask. Anyway I haven't been in that situation again as I plan ahead now and memories available toilets. However, I also control my sugar so I don't need emergency toilet run. The cafes I went to were mostly empty but as soon as they said no, I said no and went to ask the next person.

If someone was going to throw up or soil themselves or wet themselves then let them use the freaking loo.

We can't let people use ours most of the time. Occasionally I have but since you have to go through the warehouse to access them, it's like playing dodge the boom truck and forklift when theres a delivery being unloaded and no chance would we be letting a member of the public out there. Accident waiting to happen.

On the insurance thing - it's more that people are so litigious and happy to make a claim for compensation over any little thing. If someone trips or whatever, and they staff shouldn't have allowed them in the area in teh first place, that strengthens their claims of negligence.

Back shops of stores can be messy and piled high with boxes but staff should have had training on basics of health and safety. Customers haven't. I can't imagine an insurer would be too happy either if a store put in a claim for valuable stock going walkabout and it transpired that all manner or randoms had been in and out of the back shop - areas which often aren't covered by CCTV.

I have actually been in this situation!

Heavily pregnant, absolutely bursting and I was refused.

All my family were sitting outside the cafe waiting to order food, we were on a coach trip and had just got off, no toilets anywhere.

I explained all this, even pointed my family out, still no.
Not until we had actually ordered the food.

I just told them that I was going to find their toilet (as they wouldn't tell me where it was!) as otherwise I would end up pissing all over their floor and off I went, I found the loo and used it.

Because my family were so hungry they insisted on ordering food anyway and I remember being really annoyed because I didst think they were deserving of our custom 😡