Cafe wouldn’t let pregnant woman use toilet

[searchingforlight]

I’ve just ordered some breakfast for collection from a local cafe round the corner and had a quick flick through the reviews first. The most recent review is:

‘As a heavily pregnant lady went in desperate for the bathroom and they refused to let me use their toilet despite me being in tears and not close to anywhere else open. In a packed shop full of customers, they said no with no heart, no remorse, no feeling. Have never been more horrified, myself and my husband will never be using this place again’

I feel like it’s a bit harsh and the bit about there being nowhere to go close by is very untrue. There’s a Morrison’s maximum 5 minutes walk away with toilets. As a (second time) pregnant woman myself I wouldn’t get annoyed if an establishment didn't let me use staff toilets, I’d just find somewhere with public ones. The cafe gave a long response as to why they couldn’t let her use the bathroom. Mainly because their insurance didn’t cover customers in the staff area of the cafe and there were lots of boxes etc. laid about. If the pregnant woman had hurt herself then it probably wouldn’t have been good for them. They also said they managed to get the keys for the toilet in the opposite pub so it’s not like the reviewer didn’t get to use one. I think it was quite kind of them to go to the effort of making sure she used a bathroom.

Do you think she’s being reasonable or not? I think she’s being a bit U due to there being a Morrison’s so close by! (I’m not the cafe owner just interested in people’s views). My DM thinks they should have let her use it no questions asked purely because she was pregnant, I’m a little unsure

So herself wasn't a customer and herself and her husband will not be returning.
Lucky for the cafe.

YABU for giving a shit about someone else's trivial review for someone else's business.

A cafe with no loo is weird. We’d have had me nip to the loo while dp bought something to solve the issue of waiting in the queue while bursting.. but obviously that doesn’t solve the problem when there’s not a toilet.

Maybe she’s not local so wasn’t aware of Morrison’s loo’s so tried the assumption of cafe-toilet. Our supermarkets don’t have any so it’s not the first place I’d look.

I didn’t know all eateries legally had to have toilets! I’ve been in so many that haven’t and it’s quite a PITA sometimes, especially when you have small children who don’t understand they need to hold their bladder. I agree the review was harsh and probably should have stated they don’t have toilets as a bad point instead of just having a rant. I think some people (not all) can be a bit entitled when pregnant, but I understand it can be stressful or there can be complications like SPD. I’m going to end up in a wheelchair by week 30 of this pregnancy as can’t walk any further than 10 minutes without being in excruciating pain with my hips and legs. I had SPD in my first pregnancy and never fully recovered. Currently on codeine. Was on a packed train for an hour yesterday, very obviously pregnant and just had to stand up with people barging past me to get to other carriages. I’m a little nervous when it comes to asking people for a seat so am left standing as no one as ever offered. The toilet was out of use so would have had to go on the floor if I really needed it! Not that I would have obviously😂 I think it can be quite hard to navigate situations like the cafe when pregnant

hoppingpavlova

I have one of those cards because I have Crohn's: the nurse gave it to me when I was diagnosed.Thankfully I've never had to use it, but it's kind of nice to know it's there.

If they seat less than 10 people then I don't think they need to provide a toilet for customers. A popular place where I live has had to remove tables to fit in with the 10 or less policy as their landlord stopped them having use of the customer toilet upstairs and their staff toilet means customers would have to walk through the kitchen.

@searchingforlight Is this a cafe or a take away shop calling itself a cafe? I thought that legally if a cafe sold food and drink, they had to provide a toilet. If they are s shop selling food to take away, that is different. But if you eat on the premises, there has to be a loo.

Years ago when I did some p/t shop work as a student, we had a rule that the staff loo could be used in emergencies by the customers, but they would be escorted there and back as the loo was close to where staff kept their coats and bags.

I agree that walking 5 minutes is hard if not impossible if you are bursting. Some people have no idea of others bowel and bladder issues

On the other hand this woman was out of order if she was not a customer and she could have used a shop's loos before going to buy her food.

There are plenty of Greggs which have seating for 4 or so people but no toilet.

A cafe next 5 mins to a Morrisons and near a pub but without a toilet is not going to stay in business for very long. I am shocked really that they think getting the keys for the pub’s toilets is reasonable. They need to review their insurance and let customers and staff use the same toilet - my guess is they haven’t because they have nowhere else to put the boxes and also to avoid paying for a cleaner.

If they seat less than 10 people then I don't think they need to provide a toilet for customers

If they seat 10 or less the local council can exempt them from the requirement to provide a customer toilet but does not have to do so.

I have been to a few cafes that have nit had toilets because there have been public toilets nearby. Some in shopping centres but a fair number on the sea front.

Once again...

The national law is that eateries with less than 10 seats can, at the discretion of the relevant council officer, get away with not offering a customer toilet if there is no space for one or if it does mainly takeaway food. Individual councils can impose their own conditions further to this or ask that all eateries have toilet provision, but this is not 'the law' –it is individual council policy and is not standardised.

I think if they helped her find an alternative toilet then they did nothing wrong. It's not like they pointed and laughed.

I agree with this - though I'm surprised that the cafe didn't have a customer toilet. I thought anywhere that sold food/drink had to have one (or be accessible to one). However we are now such a litigious society that I don't blame them for being super-cautious regarding possible accidents.

I saw something similar in Thorntons when a boy had some sort of diabetic fit - his mother went in and demanded a bar of chocolate. The staff member on the till apologised and said no, she couldn't give her one but she could buy one. Cue the mother going off on a rant about her child and he was diabetic and couldn't they ee he needed sugar - she was so concerned she totally ignored her kid who was sorted out ny a member of the shopping centre medical staff.

She even wrote a letter t the local paper and got a sad face and a "people should realise that some diabetics need sugar" article. Had it been my child I would have made damn sure I carried a chocolate bar with me at all times, or said, "Yes - here's my money just give me the chocolate". Blimey - if I thought I could get away with that I'd collapse outside Thorntons or Hotel Chocolat on an almost daily basis . . .

I pee'd myself in M&S fairly recently because I wasn't allowed to use the loo. I'd been on my way to the toilet instore and had slipped and fallen- wasn't badly hurt, but the H&S member of staff wouldn't let me have a wee until SHE was ready even though we'd already filled in the form and I''d mentioned several times that I was desperate. She also grabbed my coat and (when she did finally let me go to the toilet) my handbag.

Normally I wouldn't have let go of it, but I knew I'd pissed myself and just wanted to get out of my soggy Tena Lady. When I came out of the cubic she was round the corner and looked very guilty - I'm sure she had been through my handbag.

I mentioned this in passing to a fellow dog walker I occasionally meet - she's a policewoman. It was her opinion that the woman had thought I was a shoplifter (and that's why I kept asking for the loo - to hide stuff etc) and had gone through my coat and bag - well good luck to her, the bitch, because my coat had no pockets and my bag had my purse, a lipstick and a packet of tissues.

I did complain to M&S with full details of the date/time/place in store I fell etc but got nowhere, as the security film for that day/time etc had mysteriously been overwritten (even thoughI complained that day - what bad luck, eh?).

I was sent a £25 voucher and gave it as a church raffle prize as I am never going across their doors again.

cafes do have to have a certain amount of seating before they're required to offer a toilet. One I worked at was a deli with a bit of seating that did takeaway coffee, and we didn't have to provide access to one. In fact we were not allowed to - not sure if it was an insurance issue or to do with health and safety law (they'd have had to pass through our kitchen to get to it) but it was a total no-no and like another poster I expect I'd have been fired if I'd let a customer use it.

They need to review their insurance and let customers and staff use the same toilet - my guess is they haven’t because they have nowhere else to put the boxes and also to avoid paying for a cleaner.

Where I've worked before the staff toilets have been through the stock room and are right next to the office, where the safe and private details are kept. To allow for customers to use the staff toilet, there would need to be extensive renovations to the building.

We run our own business with a small showroom and we're often asked if a customer can use the toilet. It's a nightmare as the gents is easily accessible but you could never rely on them keeping it clean enough for the public to use so they have to use the ladies which involves a set of steps that we've had to use hazard tape on, and we often have to go in front of the customer and move things out of the way. It's less than ideal, being honest.

So I can understand why the cafe would say no, and they did offer her an alternative. She sounds a bit of a snowflake.........

I volunteer in a charity shop and we get people asking to use our loo all the time. Usually for a child /elderly person / pregnant woman. Some people get exceptionally stroppy when you refuse and point them in the direction of Tesco 5 minutes away.

But you're a charity, it's only two minutes, she's just potty training, I'M PREGNANT YOU KNOW, won't do any harm, who will ever find out, you're just a jobsworth, etc etc etc.

People are very entitled and downright rude sometimes. And some pregnant women do feel that the world revolves around them and that exceptions should be made for them. whatever the situation.

A week before my diagnosis of type 1 diabetes I asked so many shops to use their toilets it was all no. Strangers don't open the doors I knocked on and public urination is ilegal. I was out with dsis and I cried to her about almost urinating on myself. A shop owner overheard (who was outside smoking) he said I can use their toilet. I cried whilst running to his toilet and I thanked him afterwards. I would never forget him. I didn't know how desperate I would get and on my way to town I decided to get off the bus and ask the shops and cafes there. That is when it happened. Why do insurance really care about people being allowed to use their toilets. Why is there not a get out of claiming if you sign this sheet and we will let you use our toilets. That would be more humane. Of course you don't have to let everyone use your toilet. But I despise this no insurance won't allow me rule. I understand business need to save money, but insurance rules are ridiculous at times.

@isabellerossignol Richmond council do this scheme. it works brilliantly.

So herself wasn't a customer and herself and her husband will not be returning*
Lucky for the cafe

I agree, she sounds like an entitled prick

Jobsworth and it would put me off going to that cafe.

I can't believe the people on here saying the woman should not expect to use a loo if she is not a customer. What happened to HUMAN DECENCY??? Some pregnant women are similar to people with conditions that require IMMEDIATE access to a toilet. No one should be refused in these situations. There are times where need supersedes rules. If someone was going to throw up or soil themselves or wet themselves then let them use the freaking loo.

I despise this no insurance won't allow me rule. I understand business need to save money, but insurance rules are ridiculous at times.

It may not just be accident insurance, though.

Often staff toilets are next to staff cloakrooms etc and who knows if the toilet-needer is sticky-fingered? There may not always be a member of staff available to escort the customer through these areas.

Why is there not a get out of claiming if you sign this sheet and we will let you use our toilets.

It's not just H&S though. A café may have only one or two members of staff on at any one time. A staff toilet can easily be next to an office where cash/staff details/staff belongings are held. Either the staff have to supervise the customer using the toilet, leaving the other member to do two jobs OR trust a complete stranger that they're not going to rob the café/vandalise/leave the toilet a complete mess.

I'd imagine it's not an unusual ruse for people to get access to staff belongings, especially in a cafe where staff would not usually have their valuables with them. Would you be happy for the public to gain access to the staff toilets (often also the cloakroom) where you work?