to suggest that Mumsnet is quite sexist against men?

[Eckhart]

I don't know if it's just the threads I've been on. I don't know how many men use Mumsnet.

Sexism either way makes me equally uncomfortable. How do other Mumsnet users feel about this?

Is the concept that individual men can challenge shit behaviour so that enough of them could potentially influence the group as a whole, so fucking alien to you?

Is the concept that individual men can challenge shit behaviour so that enough of them could potentially influence the group as a whole, so fucking alien to you?

Sorry, I thought you were not responding to me? Are you now addressing me? Only I'm not going to answer you if you'll then post "I'm not going to respond to you so don't bother replying".

Maybe not knowing men who act like you've listed, is the reason you're so in denial. I wonder if you live somewhere really remote and are a hermit, as claiming to never have experienced toxic masculinity really puts you in the minority. Then again you're probably one of those who thinks being catcalled is a compliment.

I'm not answering to you, that is still true. You're just plumbing the depths of absolute idiocy, though. How anyone can be so blinkered is beyond me.

Sorry, are you still talking to me or to another poster?

Not sure what men I've listed or quite what you're talking about tbh.

You actually sound a very bitter person and I feel quite sorry for you.

Make your minds up. Do you want us to discuss individual men or men as a class?

Because bad/unwanted behaviours and attitudes as a class can be influenced,challenged and changed if enough individuals work on it.

Women as a class did not have a right to vote,because as a class they were considered inferior. All women didn't one day band together and instantly changed things. It was the hard work of many individuals that changed things.

Here hear @Sagradafamiliar

PanicAndRun

I'm not saying that men as a class doesn't exist or that it's not something to be discussed.

I'm.saying some posters on here are saying that individual men should be doing this, that or the other. When someone responds to those points specifically other posters on here are lifting the replies out of context and then applying them to men as a class.

If a poster is answering a specific point about an individual why is it ok to reply with "it's not about individuals. It's about men as a class"?

To be truly feminist we should respect the reproductive system and the right of females of any species not to be used, exploited and commodified. You can’t call yourself a feminist unless you stand up against the dairy industry, where pregnancy mothers are murdered by the thousands and their babies hit against a blunt object once they take their first breath. Imagine if someone stole your baby and pumped out your milk while holding you imprisoned and then murdered you at a fraction of your life. Wake up people. You are complicit in torture and murder and exploitation of the female body unless you fight this evil.

THE mumsnet policies and mods are fine, it’s just some loud feminist posters that are bigoted and hateful.

“Endspeciesism

To be truly feminist we should respect the reproductive system and the right of females of any species not to be used, exploited and commodified. You can’t call yourself a feminist unless you stand up against the dairy industry, where pregnancy mothers are murdered by the thousands and their babies hit against a blunt object once they take their first breath. Imagine if someone stole your baby and pumped out your milk while holding you imprisoned and then murdered you at a fraction of your life. Wake up people. You are complicit in torture and murder and exploitation of the female body unless you fight this evil.”

I think you are a troll doing satire like that hilarious twitter account Titania McGrath?

THE mumsnet policies and mods are fine, it’s just some loud feminist posters that are bigoted and hateful.

14th rule of misogyny: 'Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.'

Unfortunately Peoplenstuff this is the nonsense that some young vegans spout on a vegan Facebook I’m on. I think they might actually have taken it from the same site as I’ve read it before. Can’t even be original. Half these twits will be chewing on burgers once they leave uni and have to do some real life. And that’s me speaking as a vegan of over 30yrs! I can’t stand virtuous signalling vegans.

46% of posters on this thread agree there is sexism, and have bothered to post to say something about it.

They have been absolutely lambasted. Perhaps that's why many people feel they don't want to step up to say something about it when they see it.

If you think there’s sexism then challenge it when you see it - but don’t challenge it by saying ‘if the OP was a Women then it’d be a different story!’ ie ‘I only care because there’s a chance a woman could be benefiting instead of a man’.

Fuck me, I can’t believe a woman posted this.

So unlike literally the rest of the WORLD, mumsnet doesn’t prioritise men, and maybe, even at times, is a little bit unfair/sexist towards them. God fucking forbid.

Well at least men aren’t getting rape and death threats on here, or being raped and murdered by us in real life, we’re not restricting their freedoms or stirring up hatred, or reducing them to brainless sex objects. But yeah, poor menz....

@Angelsins Why do you believe a woman posted this?

So nobody is allowed to call out any unfairness at all to an individual man, because men 'as a class' have oppressed women, and a very small proportion of them are abusive. Right so.

There have been threads where the woman has behaved badly, but a lot of posters give her a pass, whereas if it was a man they would be hauled over the coals. To notice that does not mean people only care when a woman benefits (there's another wild assumption), it means they want to be fair to everyone regardless of their gender. I don't believe that I, as a woman, deserve a free pass to behave badly. I don't want one either. Men should be called out on their bad behaviour too, it's called equal treatment. And it's basic common sense.

So nobody is allowed to call out any unfairness at all to an individual man, because men 'as a class' have oppressed women, and a very small proportion of them are abusive. Right so. hmm

There have been threads where the woman has behaved badly, but a lot of posters give her a pass, whereas if it was a man they would be hauled over the coals.

This is, quite literally, the opposite of what I said. I said ‘call it out, but don’t say ‘if a woman blah blah’ - why would the person needing help give a shit of another person was given different advice? Why is it relevant? It isn’t - it’s a way to have a pop at women.

I suspect Eckhart and their cronies are quite happy with the patriarchy's position in society thank you very much. Hence the vehement arguments against anything but man-centering, along with a hefty measure of woman blaming. I'm still gobsmacked at a poster blaming women for mens' suicides. As other posters pointed out, there is a reason why more men complete suicide than women do.

Did you intend to post this on man day OP?

I vote YABU btw.

It isn’t - it’s a way to have a pop at women.

Eh?
It really isn't. That's clear if you read my post. Of course you haven't quoted the bit that dealt with what you said.

I suspect Eckhart and their cronies are quite happy with the patriarchy's position in society thank you very much.

That is absolute bull and you know it. Being in favour of equal, fair treatment for all is the exact opposite of supporting the patriarchy.

Anyway I've had enough. It's impossible to have a reasoned discussion with people who deliberately misinterpret posts, and twist words so they can go on the attack. Good luck OP.

Aaaand a flounce because you can’t answer. What a surprise.

Also always fascinates me when misogynists show their hand by talking about ‘equality’ ie everyone being treated exactly the same. Different to fairness, isn’t it?

@SpamChaudFroid

I don't support a patriarchal society because I believe in equality. That's why I think that there shouldn't be sexism against either sex, and point it out when I see it, which is, ironically, what many of the YABUs have vehemently encouraged.

I don't have cronies. I have no idea who any of the YANBUs or YABUs are. They are all individuals. But I imagine your propensity for grouping people together simply because they share one quality is influencing your opinion on this.

Thank you for your vote. The total is now:

YABU 54%
YANBU 46%

I didn't even know it was 'man day'.