to suggest that Mumsnet is quite sexist against men?

[Eckhart]

I don't know if it's just the threads I've been on. I don't know how many men use Mumsnet.

Sexism either way makes me equally uncomfortable. How do other Mumsnet users feel about this?

I thought the rest of the paragraph wasn’t worth bothering with.

So just don't answer the question then. Ok. Clearly you're fine with berating all men, whether they deserve it or not.

So just don't answer the question then. Ok. Clearly you're fine with berating all men, whether they deserve it or not

You could take your own advice and read posts carefully of course.

The ‘good’ men need to play a part in changing the behaviour of the ‘bad’ men.

The NAMALT attitude lets everyone off the hook.

What do you mean by 'holding all me n to ransom' exactly @eckhart?

Well at least you gave yourself away when you seconded burner's post thought you were keeping your biology a closely guarded, often mentioned secret.

Reporting men for say, sex offences isn't enough Sakura. It doesn't take delete the incident, and more often than not, the victim will feel let down by the system as 'punishment' isn't given.

How pray tell am I to be responsible for other men?...Going online to constantly berate men as a class or possibly subspecies doesn’t much advance peace love and understanding. It also doesn’t strike me as being part of the solution.

Seriously - this is the attitude we are talking about when we say that men need to step up and do something. Why is the solution for women to stop reacting to male behaviour by calling it out when men themselves won't? Why should women deliver 'peace, love and understanding' when we are getting murdered 2-3 a week by our partners/ex partners?

Women, smile and look perdy and don't complain when we rape and murder you, it's not our fault, we can't help it.

No, the solution is not to be abusive.

Well yes, obviously. I'm responding in the context of previous posts blaming men for not speaking up. There are plenty of women who don't speak up when they're aware of abuse too though.

There are always going to be some horrible, abusive people in society, I don't think we can ever change that fact. What we can to is make sure that society doesn't tolerate their actions, and that there are safeguards in place to prevent them abusing others.

And yes @phforfoxsake - where are all these 'good' men when another shitbag is being let off on another 'rough sex gone wrong' fudged murder charge?

Are they marching in the streets to protect the women they claim to love?

Are they rounding up the shameful bastards and explaining to them that this is Just. Not. On. ?

Are they even joining us on the feminist chat boards to cry and beat their fists? Are they fuck.

I don't think it is sexist, but sometimes I do think that there is a narrow mindset of what is seen as an acceptable living arrangement and an inability to accept that not everyone has the same life experience.

Telling a woman that she shouldn't have had children with a man who, presumably before said children were born was a pretty decent man, is reductive and not helpful.

Some of the threads about relationships do definitely excuse bad behaviour from women - for example if a man dares to have a female friend and the wife is suspicious there are always calls to snoop at his phone etc. The way that women who are genuinely ok with their husbands and partners having female friends and colleagues are dismissed as cool wives is sexist towards women and insinuates that we are all handmaidens and misogynistic.

There are all sorts of people on here and some are sexist. Some are racist. Some are just complete and utter knobs. Most are intelligent and witty and supportive however, regardless of this gender, sex, parental status, relationship status, race, height and their views on Facebook.

@RuffleCrow as in judging them negatively.

@Sagradafamiliar I haven't given any game away, but assume what you like.

@Ohforfoxsake 'Not all men are like that' as a phrase accepts that some men are like that. I don't know about the 'NAMALT' attitude, but in my view, the men who ARE like that need punishing appropriately, and everyone needs educating that it's not acceptable to be 'like that', preferably from a very early age, so that future generations will be raised to neither perpetrate nor accept being a victim of a perpetrator/perpetrators.

Forgot to add this - the one group that does experience discrimination and nastiness on here however are stepmothers

Seriously - this is the attitude we are talking about when we say that men need to step up and do something.

What exactly do you expect an average man to do though, other than treat the women in his life with respect and report abuse if he sees it?

My DP is not a 'lad', his group of friends is a mix of men and women. He can't stand boorish behaviour so doesn't tend to hang around with people who engage in it. He's kind, loving and respectful to me, his mother and his sister. If he witnessed a sexual assault I have no doubt he would help the victim and would report it. Why do you think it's ok to place responsibility on him, and men like him, for the actions of abusive men?

Spot on Leighhalfpennysthigh

I said earlier the reason the men in my life are good men is they acknowledge the issues with men as a class rather than saying “oh it’s not us, we’re great”

The concept of 'good' and 'bad' men is really puerile. They are people like us, who can be fantastic when all is going well in their lives, and who sadly, just like women, regress when under stress, pressured, tired etc...

I do think there are a number of posters here who do believe they are perfect wives or 'good' wives, when in all likelihood, they are no different to all of us, wonderful partner when everything is going well, and harder to live with when things get tougher.

Of course there are totally useless men, as women, but most of the time, when I read moans about men here, which is often responded to by 'poor you, what a useless partner you have', I think 'yep, he sounds like a tired, stressed man, just as OP is and is probably acting accordingly just like OP is likely to be too'. Conflict is rarely just one way, but here, the focus is forever, 'how can/should our partner change'' and only very rarely 'what could I do differently so that we can reconnect again, and compromise'.

Knock yourself out, Deathgrip.

“What do you think of when you hear the word ‘feminist’?” I just asked my wife, who warned me about posting that, as she knows what a timesuck MN can be.

“Someone deeply unpleasant,” she said.

Oh, how we laughed.

Cheers for the biscuit, or the near biscuit. There’s plenty to go around.

The skewing of other people's words and the insistence on hearing only what we want to hear is rife on this thread. I've truly never seen anything like it.

I'm going back to the boards about dogs, and supporting people in tough relationships, and hilarious misheard lyrics!

The skewing of other people's words and the insistence on hearing only what we want to hear is rife on this thread

I’m quite sure you’re including all the anecdotes regarding sexism in that?

People tend to make judgements based on their personal experiences OP, and on what they see in the world going on around them.

Here's a thought experiment based on real events. Let's see how you do.

Your 17 year old daughter was recently sexually assaulted at her place of work by a woman. (Just kidding - it was a man. Of course). And no-one she worked with gave a shiny shit. In fact they accused her of lying.

She has now had a nice night out with her friends, a few weeks later but it is dark - about 11pm and her friend who lives closest to her has gone down one road and she down the other.

She notices a man about fifty feet behind her. He seems to be gaining on her. She has never seen this man before and she doesn't know anything about his moral character. To make matters worse he has begun to whistle "Killing Me Softly" loudly.

What would you advise your daughter to do in these circumstances and why?

By your sneering tone, constant tagging people when they've asked you not to, belittling thoughtful and intelligent posts, passive aggression and the sealioning I vote MAN. And I'm only on page 7!

*belittling others thoughtful and intelligent posts, not your own obviously.

spam
Don't say that, you'll get in trouble for being unpleasant.

Don't you know that people only ever question the motives or agendas of people who they disagree with. It has nothing to do with a certain posting style that attracts scepticism.

I know we can all sleep easier burner knowing what you and your wife think of feminists.

@Eckhart
Great thread. No YANBU!

“Someone deeply unpleasant,” she said.

Exactly. Smile, peace and love women. Don't be 'unpleasant' that upsets the fellas.