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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to suggest that Mumsnet is quite sexist against men?

848 replies

Eckhart · 18/11/2019 16:51

I don't know if it's just the threads I've been on. I don't know how many men use Mumsnet.

Sexism either way makes me equally uncomfortable. How do other Mumsnet users feel about this?

OP posts:
Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:03

@Ohforfoxsake We agree! We need more resources so that criminals and abusers don't even feel they've got a hope of getting away with with it. And yes, better education so that people don't even grow up with the attitudes that make that stuff ok, in the first place.

Sounds like you and your son have had a horrible time of it. I'm sorry to hear it.

OP posts:
Sagradafamiliar · 19/11/2019 11:03

Are* skewed

JumpersforGoalposts · 19/11/2019 11:04

I don't think Mumsnet is sexist towards men. There are certainly some vitriolic statements made against men but surely this reflects the experience of the poster(s) concerned and shouldn't be dismissed.
Men can be (and many are) complete shits and their inappropriate behaviour, attitude & language needs to be challenged by other men.

When it is dark, my DW will not go to certain places that would not bother me in the slightest. This fear is something that most men will never experience so until women aren't scared, oppressed or disadvantaged by men then Mumsnet can continue to be as scathing as it likes.

gamerchick · 19/11/2019 11:04

Eckhart when will you stop trying to make your ambiguity about your sex a thing? No one finds it intriguing. It's been pointed out that anyone can be a raging misogynist, there is no big 'aha!' moment to be had when you finally reveal that you are in fact, a woman. Or a man

You seriously need to be told?

There's a lot of weirdness going on today on other threads as well as this one. Personally as the agenda was posted on page 7 of this one. I'd say don't give it any more airtime.

OP we get it, you don't like Mumsnet. Why don't you go play somewhere more to your taste? Wink

Sakura7 · 19/11/2019 11:08

I see a lot of posters here taking one or two examples of bad male behaviour and extrapolating it to the entire male population.

There are more and more young men speaking out against sexism. I don't believe it's fair to tar all young men with the same brush because of the behaviour of some.

I do find it frustrating when men who do speak out are criticised (Tom Meagher being an example), and when some men get defensive about it. Attitudes do need to be challenged and I believe we are getting there, but we could do with getting there quicker.

Ultimately, it's wrong to hold prejudicial views of anyone based on their gender alone, or their race, or their nationality.

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:09

@Sagradafamiliar 'Just some' isn't a random guess I made, it's everybody's truth. We clearly interpret that truth differently. I'm not hellbent on dismissing any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, and fully accept that many women have been the victims of many horrible, criminal, entitled, 'make-your-skin-crawl', dangerous men. It's awful for those women, and I feel for them as I did for my Mum when my father was beating her up.

I just don't think it's fair to judge all men for it, because there are many, many decent men.

OP posts:
burnerdisplayname · 19/11/2019 11:11

a lot of the accusations of being man hating are aimed at the feminism part of the site. And yet that's the one place you'll not be finding statements about men being useless with babies or not being able to see dirty dishes.

I haven’t gone there enough to form an opinion, but am happy to take your word for it. I don’t consider myself to be a feminist, and my wife doesn’t identify as such, partly because we don’t know what it really means, though I’m sure there have been thousands of discussions about just that… Equality is obvs the ideal. The very word ‘feminist’ seems to me to immediately bias discussion about it.

Just going by my own experiences in life, I think women have a great deal of power in the world as it is.

[pause for laughter to die down]

I was raised more by my mother than my father, though both always worked outside the home, and my babysitters were all female. The vast majority of my teachers were likewise female. On my first few jobs I was obliged to wear a necktie, which was hot and uncomfortable, while women had no dress code whatsoever. I had to register for the draft (I was born in in the States), while my sisters didn’t. No actual draft, thank god, but still.

Almost all of my bosses over the years have been women (whose bosses may have been men, sure).

While men may be over-represented in politics and the upper echelons of business, when it comes day-to-day living, those I have been answerable to have mostly been women (including my wife, haha. No, seriously.) If that’s not power, or at least overwhelming influence, I don’t know what is.

I certainly can’t deny that more men than women are violent. I used to hit my younger sister when we were kids. Then again, my older sister used to scratch me something awful with her nails. Thankfully neither of us grew up to be scratchers or hitters.

She has also wondered aloud just how many frequent posters are married or manage to stay very long in relationships

What a disappointing attitude from your wife. I hope you advised her as you did on here that it isn’t every woman’s goal.

I’m confident she’s already made that elementary deduction. In any case, I wouldn’t presume to tell her her mind.

What upsets me most is when a man posts asking for advice on an obviously difficult situation. Rather than advice he gets a pile on "because men as a class..." But he's an individual and struggling. It's not his responsibility to answer for every ill caused by men is it?

You’d think. Wait a minute…

I will continue to be angry until men take responsibility for other men, and not bleat on that women are the bad guys for not liking it.

How pray tell am I to be responsible for other men? There is no practical way of doing that short of joining the police force, which has quite enough testosterone as it is. As for challenging them and expecting my challenge to carry more weight because I’m also male, as someone else suggested, I’d hope to do what any decent person would if witnessing abuse.

Going online to constantly berate men as a class or possibly subspecies doesn’t much advance peace love and understanding. It also doesn’t strike me as being part of the solution.

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:11

@gamerchick I love Mumsnet! My question was 'Is MN sexist against men?'

OP posts:
Sagradafamiliar · 19/11/2019 11:12

Yeah you're not getting it. Because it's not in your agenda to 'get it'.
gamer you're so right. I'll leave now.
The most interesting thing I'll take away from this thread is that every male poster who has contributed, disagrees with OP.

Sakura7 · 19/11/2019 11:17

Great post burnerdisplayname

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:17

@Sagradafamiliar It's not an agenda, it's an opinion.

Bye.

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 19/11/2019 11:18

It also doesn’t strike me as being part of the solution

Why are women expected to be part of the solution?

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:22

Great post, burnerdisplayname seconded.

OP posts:
Deathgrip · 19/11/2019 11:22

While men may be over-represented in politics and the upper echelons of business, when it comes day-to-day living, those I have been answerable to have mostly been women (including my wife, haha. No, seriously.) If that’s not power, or at least overwhelming influence, I don’t know what is.

Oh dear. I seem to have bludgeoned my head to bits on my desk.

I cannot believe anyone would write this paragraph without attempting to be satirical. Surely.

0hforfoxsake · 19/11/2019 11:24

I think Jacques that we are meant to ignore the ‘bad men’ and tell ourselves it’s ok because there are ‘good men’?

JacquesHammer · 19/11/2019 11:25

I think Jacques that we are meant to ignore the ‘bad men’ and tell ourselves it’s ok because there are ‘good men’?

Well thank goodness that’s solved then.

Sakura7 · 19/11/2019 11:26

Why are women expected to be part of the solution?

The solution is education and debate, and making people (men and women) feel confident in reporting/confronting abusive behaviour. There needs to be political will and proper support. Attitudes are changing.

In relation to the rest of the paragraph you quoted from, how is berating all men for the actions of a few helping the situation?

0hforfoxsake · 19/11/2019 11:27

No, the solution is not to be abusive.

gamerchick · 19/11/2019 11:27

Please don't tag me OP. I don't like my inbox filled with the things Ty.

JacquesHammer · 19/11/2019 11:28

In relation to the rest of the paragraph you quoted from, how is berating all men for the actions of a few helping the situation?

I thought the rest of the paragraph wasn’t worth bothering with.

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:31

Sorry Gamerchick

OP posts:
Sakura7 · 19/11/2019 11:32

I think Jacques that we are meant to ignore the ‘bad men’ and tell ourselves it’s ok because there are ‘good men’?

Who is saying that? Maybe you should read the actual words posted by the OP and others. The 'bad men' should absolutely not be ignored, they should be reported and punished. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. What people are saying is that it's not fair to vilify all men for the actions of a few, or try to place blame on decent men who love and respect women.

RuffleCrow · 19/11/2019 11:34

Oh @burnerdisplayname your "women have more power because they do all the wifework" argument is only going to earn you a Biscuit here.

Eckhart · 19/11/2019 11:34

*The solution is education and debate, and making people (men and women) feel confident in reporting/confronting abusive behaviour. There needs to be political will and proper support. Attitudes are changing.

In relation to the rest of the paragraph you quoted from, how is berating all men for the actions of a few helping the situation?*

In a nutshell, this is the 'agenda' I keep being accused of having. I HATE abuse. I HATE sexism, and I've been victim to both, multiple times. I just don't understand how holding all men to ransom because some men are sexist/abusive is going to help.

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 19/11/2019 11:34

What people are saying is that it's not fair to vilify all men for the actions of a few, or try to place blame on decent men who love and respect women

Do you interpret “men as a class are an issue” as “all men are shit”?