to suggest that Mumsnet is quite sexist against men?

[Eckhart]

I don't know if it's just the threads I've been on. I don't know how many men use Mumsnet.

Sexism either way makes me equally uncomfortable. How do other Mumsnet users feel about this?

Are all men like that?

I haven't accused anybody of anything. I think that everybody needs to accept responsibility for themselves. ie an abuser needs to stop abusing, a sexist man needs to stop being sexist, a sexist woman needs to stop being sexist. Decent men should not be asked to take responsibility for not-decent men.

LOL at ‘you are very rude’.

I’m very ANGRY.

When you can’t walk down the street without being followed. When you are in your junior school uniform and get cornered on your way home by a man 5 times your age, when you are touched, rubbed up.

My 14 yo’s friend told us that a man openly had a wank on the bus last month when they were going home from school.

But it’s ok, because plenty of men on that bus didn’t jerk themselves off in front of school girls.

They didn’t say anything either.

And when we get to that utopia we can all rejoice.

How do you stop men yelling from a moving vehicle to a 13 year old child in school uniform that they want to eat their pussy?

OP, tell that to the men.

Us women know that. Do you actually think this is the world we want to live in?

Being angry isn't an excuse for being rude, just like it's not an excuse to punch someone, or any other unacceptable behaviour.

If it is your opinion that all men should be viewed negatively because of your negative experiences, I'm not going to tell you to 'fuck off and go and do something about it in the real world', because that would be me being rude. You obviously had some shit experiences and have a particular viewpoint because of that. It can't feel very nice for you. But this is an internet forum. People say stuff and others disagree. It's not reasonable to just tell them to go elsewhere and do something about it. It's a conversation.

PPs were absolutely right that 1.) feminism benefits men and 2.) men suffer through toxic masculinity.

It's not about taking responsibility and being apologetic on behalf of shit men, but challenging them. Who else is better placed to do this than men?! It's a male problem. Why must women shoulder everything? We've had women blamed for everything on this thread, even down to male suicide, because it's offensive to suggest that men should rise up and think of something.

Toxic men don’t listen to women.

Which is why men need to speak up.

Do you honestly think these toxic men listen to other men when theit behaviour is called out? That they pause and consider their actions before taking a new enlightened path in life. From my experiences I will just be told to f*ck off.

A number of girls have been sexually assaulted by the same boy who is also their age. 14-15

The make friends of this boy have all said that while they know he is wrong, he is still "their boy" and they have to stand by him.
This pretty much sums up masculinity for me.

It's this attitude that brings about a situation whereby a female will know of lots (if not a majority) of friends and acquaintances who have sexually harassed/assaulted/raped, but men always claim to not know anyone who has attacked women in this way. They do know, they're just protecting them.

I don't feel sorry for men, I think that as a whole they need to sort themselves out, stop being sexually weird/aggressive/predatory and to stop defending this who are.

Until women are safe from men, men can do one.

Sorry! And before the NAMALT's cone charging to the poor men's defence - I'm talking collectively. If men don't want to be tarred with this brush they should be more proactive in preventing male violence.

How do you stop men yelling from a moving vehicle to a 13 year old child in school uniform that they want to eat their pussy? You report them and you keep on fighting to get heard until you get heard. THAT'S where I'd be getting angry.

OP, tell that to the men. I do.

'Us women' suggests you think I'm a man. That's an assumption based on sexist foundations. Even if you think I support men and not women (which is not the case), I could still be a woman.

Fox, well said. Very well said! But you're banging your head against a brick wall with this OP.

I agree OP, there definitely are some posters here who think men are the devil incarnate and the woman is always right. Common sense goes out the window.

I've seem some posters say women shouldn't live with a man because it's the biggest threat to their safety. The proportion of men who harm their partner is very small. Of course it's horrendous, and yes there is an imbalance there with most DV victims being women, but telling women who have kind, decent partners that their man is a threat to them is frankly ridiculous.

Sexism is appalling and there's still a way to go. Men who hold sexist views and behave in sexist ways deserve criticism, but being fair to decent men (and there are lots of them out there) is not anti-femisinst.

Fucks sake. That’s what you chose to focus on? That you consider me to be rude?

It isn’t just my bad experience. It’s not my own personal experience. Millions and millions of women are oppressed and abused by men. Whether that’s intimate relationships or culturally.

it’s the world we live in. It’s fucking awful.

You report them and you keep on fighting to get heard until you get heard. THAT'S where I'd be getting angry

Yeah my 12 year old DD tried that on a train when she was sexually harassed by a group of men. The guard (male) declined to assist her. As did a number of other men who studiously ignored the situation.

Eckhart when will you stop trying to make your ambiguity about your sex a thing? No one finds it intriguing. It's been pointed out that anyone can be a raging misogynist, there is no big 'aha!' moment to be had when you finally reveal that you are in fact, a woman. Or a man.

@Sagradafamiliar You're right. I'll never be convinced that it's ok to hold the whole of one sector of society responsible for the crimes of just some of its members. I'm very happy to be that brick wall, with regards to sexism, racism, and any other arena of prejudice.

MEN SHOULDNT THINK ITS OK TO BEHAVE THAT WAY.

We shouldn’t HAVE TO REPORT THEM.

Sagrada I'm not going to be revealing it and I don't care whether anyone cares or not. I've raised it only when it's seemed relevant to me because I've felt someone has been judging me for it.

If you don’t like MN, OP, other websites are available that may be more to your taste,

'WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO REPORT THEM' I agree.

But we do have to report them. We don't have to hold it against all men though.

@0hforfoxsake - but you don't speak for me. Don't assume things about all women. I've never experienced ANY of what you said and regularly walk home alone at night with no fear. I know women as a class suffer from men as a class, but the answer isn't to make every individual man pay for that and be sexist in return. That extreme approach will never gain us equality, just alienate other women.

@KristinaM It's not that I don't like it, but I wanted to know how people felt about this issue. There's been a great variety of views, some think it's sexist against men, some don't. It's interesting. I'm also reading/commenting on quite a few other threads - my whole MN experience isn't summed up by 'this place is screwing men over'. It's just that I've seen some comments that have made me

There are more of those sort of comments now, since I asked the question. I've touch a nerve.

because the resources are there aren’t they?

Remind me how many assaults/rapes/harassment go unreported because there’s simply no point?

My child was mugged (twice). He didn’t want to report it, because - there’s no point.
Two weeks the police took to respond.

So here’s an idea, let’s do away with the behaviour in the first place, so we don’t have to go down the road of reporting.

Because the reason why most men who choose to behave that way is because they can, and they know it.

OP, tell that to the men. I do

Why haven't they all stopped then? If you have told them not to?

I already said it's not about holding anyone responsible personally, you are just hearing/reading what you want.

Just some of its members

Just some. Just some, yeah. You are hellbent on dismissing all anecdotal evidence, hard data and statistics (which a skewed as a staggering amount of crime, not just sexism but actual crime, goes unreported).
Speaking of crime. The criminal justice system is still patriarchal. Your belief in it is heartwarming though.

Re PP thinking advice to not move in with a man is ridiculous advice: I can see why someone would offer that advice as almost all sexual abuse, murder, rape, assault is carried out within the home. Random attacks are rarer. And yet they still happen- a lot.