Aibu nightmare child in dd class

[mussymummy]

So will try to keep this brief, dd was at nursery for 3 years with child, let's call him Bob who physically hurt her and other kids from age 2 when he bit another boy in the face. Nursery did not do enough (they have admitted this since) and the mother keeps making excuses for her darling Bob.
So now they are both in P1 in same class, I did request a class change for my dd but did not happen. He is a nightmare, punching kids in face, at afterschool club he has bitten and kicked one of the workers, his mum still refuses to accept responsibility for him and makes excuses
So this week he told my 5yo dd he was goin to kill her mummy and daddy as we slept. Cue tears, my heart breaking as my dd made me lock every window and door in house as she followed me doing it. She woke 3 times.that night (always sleeps right through) convinced child of chucky was trying to break in.
Ladies what do I do? The mother (aged in 40's with 2 older teenage ds) refuses to do anything about his behaviour because she has already raised 2 sons and there is nowt wrong with them.
I am struggling to know how to handle this. I spoke to the school who told me they have a behaviour plan in place for Bob and the last time I contacted the mum directly it did not go well (when we thought dd had a broken nose after Bob smacked her in face with toy car, there was lots of blood)
Any advice on next steps / how I handle this would be much appreciated

"I’d speak to the mum and tell her the next time her son smacks my child il be smacking her back.
She will soon sort him out."

Then you would have a criminal record which may mean you lose your job and possibly your child.

Rubbish Bella

You thinking you're all hard and able to take this mother on in a fight, will have absolutely no bearing on her child's behaviour whatsoever.

The child is behaving like this at school. The school and the parents need to sort it out.

If punching people in the face solved everything, there would be no problems in any school.

WalkofShame Lucifer is a great programme, I agree!

Sorry to derail the thread.

Back to the thread, mainstream inclusion only works if there is the funding, resources and facilities to enable this. All children affected, always lose out otherwise. Sadly, many different governments have had a hand in this dire situation and my heart breaks for these pupils, parents and teachers.

The school has a duty to safeguard all children.

Bob may well have undiagnosed SEND needs. Bob may well be a badly behaved child. The problem is that as long as Bob's parents refuse to engage, deny there is an issue and are quite happy for things to carry on then there's a limit to what the school can do. Just look at the SEND boards where engaged parents are having to fight tooth and nail to get their child the support they need. Without that sort of engaged parent, Bob is unlikely to thrive and will continue to place the safety of others at risk.
What's Bob going to be like aged 13 when he is in a mainstream school and is told no, or a secondary school (rightly) makes it clear that violently threatening others isn't ok?

I'd take statements from your child after every incident and send them to school asking how they are ensuring your child is safe. That way you're not overstepping by going after Bob, but school would probably also be able to use your contact as evidence to support the concerns I have no doubt they'll be expressing behind closed doors.

You cannot call the police on a 5 year old!
Five, for fucks sake.
Five year olds have no concept of right and wrong and are incapable of empathy
That's all.of them not just the chucky child ones

worra - its not about being hard, it’s a last resort when a parent like the ops case doesn’t think there is a problem!
I won’t stand by and let some little shit bully my daughter for years so if I get to the end of my patience then I will start doing whatever there kid does to my child to them. They can move there kid out of school, I don’t care. My child comes first, not some brat that can’t be controlled.

under - yeh because realistically I’m going to do that in front of loads of witnesses. My word against hers.

Anyway it doesn’t actually matter if people don’t agree with me.

We had this when my ds was the same age. Kids now in juvenile lock up. Yabu

@hazell42 - plenty of 5 year olds know right from wrong! Don’t talk crap.

Bella, were you a child like Bob at school? Because that's certainly how you're coming across.

Can't solve a problem? Punch 'em in the face. That'll learn 'em.

I guess that sort of violent attitude never leaves some people.

No I wasn’t and neither are my children👌🏻

Soooo many people presume undiagnosed sen but what about undiagnosed psychopathy or sociopathy? Society needs to consider this too

So much ugliness and prejudice on this thread. Makes me sad.

OP you concentrate on your own child and focus on discussing with school what steps they are taking to keep her safe.

Leave Bob and his mother alone. You have no idea what is going on in their lives. And please remember he is 5.

Leave Bob and his mother alone. You have no idea what is going on in their lives. And please remember he is 5

Bit young then for smacking the OP's DD so hard she bled and terrorising her by telling her he was going to kill Mummy and Daddy while they slept...

It’s hard to have empathy when you have no idea what your child faces day in day out.

We raise good kind children, who are then subjected to daily violence, can’t sleep, won’t eat, scared and afraid.

Is that ok?

I’m all for inclusion where inclusion works, I’m all for supporting parents who acknowledge there are issues and seek help.

When people are ignoring the facts and my children suffer I have every right to be angry.

Actually, my advice from a legal perspective is because outwardly I am a nice fairly upper middle class professional. I'm 5' 1" and speak very well, no swearing etc. Most of my colleagues presume I fit into their ski-in-February, inherit mater and Pater's furniture, private education and pony background.. the fact is, I don't. I grew up on a rough as fuck housing estate where 90% of my peers were mothers of several broken families or dead from heroin overdoses by the age of 30. You wouldn't know it if you know me IRL - with my being able to separate out my "previous" life fairly easily and get lost in geography by saying I'm from "the south east"...

I still know, despite living in the middle class bubble for a long time now, that you can follow the school process. You can have mediation sessions. You can have an LEA agreed plan in place.

But the world has taught me that in order to get what you want or need (in this case, the poor daughter to feel safe in what should already be a safe environment).. there are 2 options:

1. Slam them, completely obliterate the shirker school with legal threats that you will (and can) execute on.
   OR

2. by having a "he said she said" confrontation with the parents where you make it clear you will exact tenfold of hurt on them if DD is touched. I'm not saying to hit or punch in the playground only your middle class bubble conjures that up as what I mean.

I'm telling you - you either deal with this with every legal method at your disposal or you do it rough style. The school have already confirmed they're incapable. Each of us has a different moral code but after 4 decades on this planet I know the above 2 methods are the only things that actually work in these situations.

@Bellaxx8 you do realise that people can still be convicted of crimes where there are no eyewitnesses?

Not that I believe you’d do this anyway, all talk who wouldn’t say boo to a goose most likely.

@YetAnotherSpartacus doesn't change my advice

So sad that your advice is to support the bully.

by having a "he said she said" confrontation with the parents where you make it clear you will exact tenfold of hurt on them if DD is touched. I'm not saying to hit or punch in the playground only your middle class bubble conjures that up as what I mean.

If that was directed at me, how do you know what class I am? You're the one banging on about 'class'.

Working class for the record and living on a council estate...

Punch them in a playground or punch them in the middle of a lonely dessert.

That'd still make you a violent woman and an awful example to your child.

OP don't be derailed you've had some excellent advice here, keep an eye on DD's educational development too. She may slip behind in her progress due to fear and worry which is even more appalling. This might make the school take more notice, especially if it effects her attendance. Whatever is going on with Bob, I understand why you wouldn't care less, you just want to make it all stop for DD because you are a good engaged mum.

It doesn't matter if the child has SEN needs or not. Follow the process. If you stop the process then the incident is seen as being dealt with to your satisfaction. Hence if you have complained 50 times about a incident at stage one but never taken it to stage 2. It is over and done with. School can accurately say it has been dealt with and Ofsted will agree. Don't involve the other parents,police or governors. Follow the process each time. Previous incidents have been sorted. It can be frustrating but threats just muddy the water. Get the complaints policy and stick to it. It disadvantages you to do otherwise. Don't get frustrated stay reasonable but persistent.

Potatoes x12. So you washed your hands off your child's behaviour😮
I've recently had to speak to a little boys carer about his behaviour and she spoke to his parents, all three have stood unified and decided to put in place boundaries etc it's been a delight to have him in now and I've said so to her and praised him too. We all need to work together for the betterment of our children, they need consistent clear boundaries and praise when earned.

Your best option is to document each and every event and meeting in writing, and send it to the head every time.

Read the school's behaviour and complaint policies, and follow them / expect them to be followed to the letter - so if the behaviour policy says 'the consequence for violent behaviour is X', and you know that has not happened, ask why.

In your position I would be requesting an urgent meeting with the Head on Monday - ask for it after school explicitly so that he / she can spend the day gathering information from the class teacher - in writing, with your record of every event that has happened so far enclosed / attached.

Be factual. State what happened, and its effect on your DD, not what you think about it (e.g. no opinion on parenting, but do record exactly what the parent said).

Your question is how the school meets its duty of care and safeguarding towards your DD. Not 'how are they going to deal with Bob?' It will help if you have an immediate list of requests - e.g. for Bob never to be included in your child's group, or for Bob to have a different playtime from your child - and a suggestion for escalation 'If there is another event, showing that the measures are insufficient to keep my DD safe, I expect a move to another class', then 'If the situation is not resolved after 2 weeks, I will be escalating this to X according to the complaints policy'

Document all meetings, and send minutes to the head, stating that unless you hear from him / her otherwise, you understand that they are treating it as a fair record of the meeting.

If no improvement / action, send the whole lot to the LA (or follow the school complaints procedure to the letter).

We had similar. I know people say kids can't be bullys but they really can.
We had Kid X in the DC's old school. He bullied various kids including DS in P3, P4, P5. The parents wouldn't have it. The dad would come and square up to anyone that said his little prince wasn't perfect. The teachers tried, other parents tried. There was no talking to them. Eventually a group of parents went and spoke to the head teacher and requested a meeting. It was beyond a joke.

After P5 we had had enough. We moved schools (and house/areas). Best thing we have done. DS is thriving. So much confidence, really learning. Great school and teacher and parents that take a proper interest and responsibility in what their kids do. The DC now can't wait to go to school each day.

So it's not easy, I know, but move.

*I know people say kids can't be bullys but they really can.

*I know people say little kids can't be bullys but they really can.

Where we are P3 is 3yo, P4 is 4yo and P5 is 5 yo.
This was going on since X was a 3 year old. Nasty kid, and is going to grow up to be an even nastier adult as his parents do nothing.