To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

That was a reply to @ArseDarkly btw.

Many Jews are secular I am well aware of that, i'm one of them

The issue is about anti-semitism towards British citizens & British members of Parliament. And that issue has it roots in the issue of the Israel/Palestine conflict - if you genuinely want to address the issue of antisemitism on the Left you cannot just brush that aside.

It's also no help to anyone to say you expect more from Labour than the Tories - what sense in there in that? In fact it's exactly the attitude they're complaining about towards Israel - expecting Israel to be better.

It's also no help to anyone to say you expect more from Labour than the Tories - what sense in there in that? In fact it's exactly the attitude they're complaining about towards Israel - expecting Israel to be better.

There's no parallel there.

People expect Labour to be better because they proclaim themselves to be the anti-racist party. It's a standard they've set for themselves

People expect Israel to be 'better' because Jews went through the Holocaust, and thus there is the antisemitic assertion that they should 'know better'.

One is warranted, because it is based on the party's own claims; one is imposed on a group of people.

So you’re blaming Jews for antisemitism in the Labour Party?

"And that issue has it roots in the issue of the Israel/Palestine conflict - if you genuinely want to address the issue of antisemitism on the Left you cannot just brush that aside"

AKA victim blaming. Even if Israel really were a genocidal apartheid regime, it wouldn't justify antisemitism. Just like British Muslims shouldn't be held responsible for ISIS or Saudi Arabia or Iran and British Buddhists shouldn't be held responsible for Myanmar atrocities against Rohingya or Sinhalese against Tamils or British Hindus for lynchings of Muslims in India or British Russian Orthodox for Russian atrocities. In fact, it's really only the Jews who seem to be held responsible for Israel.

This is quite funny:
www.jewishquarterly.org/2018/07/dont-be-anti-semitic-left-wing-edition-a-board-game/

We could play the board game on this thread!

AKA victim blaming

Clearly not and, yet again, framing it in that way it shuts down debate. If people want to understand why this issue has arisen in the Labour party they need to look at it in the context of the Israel/Palestine conflict.

If they want to understand.

.

No, that's an excuse. There are many other ethno religious conflicts, many far worse but a) the left has obsessed about Palestine (why?) and b) even if it were the most brutal dictatorship, British jews are not responsible

So are you saying that Israeli Jews are responsible?

I indicated in my post above why the conflict would be a particular flash-point for those on the left.

Umm, I said British Jews are not responsible for whatever happens in Israel/Palestine. It's quite a leap to then say 'oh so Israeli Jews are'. What a bizarre thing to do.

In any case, we're not talking about Israelis here, whether Jewish or not. We're talking about antisemitism towards British citizens, living in Britain. Trying to pin it on events in Israel is antisemitic in and of itself.

The thing about Corbyn and anti Semitism I feel is that his leadership is weak. Neither he nor the Labour party have dealt with the complaints they have received speedily and have even allowed some members to be reinstated. If Corbyn really wanted to quash this dialog he would cut all ties with anyone spouting this hate language and through them out immediately.

Did anybody see Question Time? I felt the audience member raised the issue very clearly and simply, limiting it to one specific situation in which Corbyn was actually there when Jewish MP Ruth Smeeth was verbally attacked and left in tears, he did nothing when a proper leader would have stepped up, then he went chatting to the guy who'd been shouting at her. Corbyn said he'd had discussions with Ruth Smeeth since then, he said nothing to justify being friendly to the man who was abusive towards her moments after that abuse. He simply didn't give a fuck about it, clearly, in fact it's worse than that because he still doesn't seem to realise why he should!

I started reading this thread last night and finished it this morning (obviously sleeping in between). It has taken me hours as I’ve read various sources since but I am glad I have. I’ve also watched the Panaroma this morning.

I clicked on this thread as Labour/Corbyn supporter and if you had asked me this time yesterday I would have said that I didn’t believe he was anti Semitic, and probably spouted the argument that it was a stick for the MSM to repeatedly beat him with.

I had seen the scandal about the mural but I thought it was anti capitalist and didn’t see the anti Jewish sentiment until it was spelled out on here. I now feel awful for continually brushing the cries of anti Semitic behaviour aside because it is clear it is alive and well.

I am not in London, I live rurally and don’t know any Jewish people personally which is perhaps also why I’ve never looked into it more.

My views now - I am still a Labour supporter. I think that LP members who abhor racism in all its forms far outweigh those who hold or excuse racist beliefs. I will make my vote in good faith that the party will do all they can to stamp this out. But I now hope that Corbyn is replaced swiftly. It is clear that he hasn’t done enough and has badly let down his Jewish colleagues. I don’t think he can recover from this although and my vote will be for a party not a person.

I’m sorry to all those who feel unwelcome or discriminated against. It is thoroughly depressing in 2019.

@tequilasunrises's response is that of a reasonable person, thanks, this thread made it seem those were in short supply. (I'm presuming as a reasonable person that you've also researched your own local candidate to ensure they aren't personally problematic.)

Does anyone have a link to the Panorama program that I can watch from outside the UK?

www.dailymotion.com/video/x7d0xfe

Thank you so much @ViaSacra, I haven’t been able to find this and have been desperate to watch it!

We’ll be able to forget about Corbyn in couple of weeks once the Great British public has vote the racist, sexist, adulterous homophobe into Number 10 to pursue the Brexit which will Make Britain Great Again. I wouldn’t lose sleep about Corbyn, but I think this quote by Chomsky, who is himself Jewish, and has an intellect approximately 3 trillion times greater than Johnson and Corbyn put together, sums it up fairly well:
One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate Anti-Racist Campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually Pro-Racist and Anti-Semitic.”
— Noam Chomsky

I think this quote by Chomsky, who is himself Jewish, and has an intellect approximately 3 trillion times greater than Johnson and Corbyn put together, sums it up fairly well:

Unfortunately for you, that is a fake quote and Noam Chomsky never said it. Didn’t stop it being widely spread on twitter though.

Hopefully Chomsky is brighter than describing Jeremy Corbyn as the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years. I mean, really? Think of the competition.

@noblegiraffe
I believed it to be genuine as the essence of it basically rang true, despite being perhaps a bit exaggerated in terms of the use of the world”greatest”. This recent quote by Chomsky, the prominent Jewish academic, certainly is the real McCoy though:

‘The charges of anti-Semitism against Corbyn are without merit, an underhanded contribution to the disgraceful efforts to fend off the threat that a political party might emerge that is led by an admirable and decent human being, a party that is actually committed to the interests and just demands of its popular constituency and the great majority of the population generally, while also authentically concerned with the rights of suffering and oppressed people throughout the world. Plainly an intolerable threat to order.’ (Noam Chomsky, email to Media Lens, September 9, 2018)

This article contains an interesting history of the charges - which it notes were completely non-existent before Corbyn became Labour leader. Anyway, this is all by the by because the UK will soon appoint a man who is undoubtedly not just racist, but also homophobic and sexist, as well as having many other valuable traits such as adultery, compulsive lying and not acknowledging the existence of his own children. The bad Jeremy Corbyn will soon be ancient history!
www.mintpressnews.com/charges-without-merit-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-norman-finkelstein-and-noam-chomsky/249439/

I believed it to be genuine as the essence of it basically rang true

‘Who do you think the greatest antiracist campaigner of the last 40 years is?’
‘Dunno’
‘Well my money was on Nelson Mandela but it turns out it’s some white bloke from Islington’
‘What has he achieved?’
‘Well he’s the leader of a political party that has met the EHRC threshold for investigation into antisemitism’
‘Are you sure he’s the greatest antiracist campaigner of the last 40 years??’
‘Someone said on twitter that Noam Chomsky said so’
‘Seems legit’

Yes, Dandelion!
‘The charges of anti-Semitism against Corbyn are without merit, an underhanded contribution to the disgraceful efforts to fend off the threat that a political party might emerge that is led by an admirable and decent human being, a party that is actually committed to the interests and just demands of its popular constituency and the great majority of the population generally, while also authentically concerned with the rights of suffering and oppressed people throughout the world. Plainly an intolerable threat to order.’ (Noam Chomsky, email to Media Lens, September 9, 2018)

Yep.

And people say there’s no cult around Corbyn.