Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

AIBU to tell my lodger he needs to go home for Christmas?

129 replies

CupOfTeaAndSixBiscuits · 15/11/2019 11:08

I have a lodger who has depression (recently started to receive care from the CMHT and GP) and he made a suicide attempt relatively recently. I have to encourage him to take his pills and not take his own life, in a nutshell. He's also got Asperger's, which can affect his understanding of some things, but he's still pretty social.

We actually get on quite well, and have become friends. It's just that I worry and have to keep an eye on him.

Since he moved out of the local family home in the spring, he literally hasn't visited once (though he has seen them, they come to us). They're not especially supportive with MH things, but they do care about him. He's talking about not going home for Christmas and just staying in the house by himself, which I don't think will be good for him. I'll be staying with my family in another city.

I've told him that he needs to go home for Christmas, essentially so that I don't have to worry that I'll come home to a corpse about him. He's resisting this. There's no written lodger agreement, and I have no actual way of ensuring he does go home.

Am I being unreasonable? Part of me says I am because he'll still be paying to be there just like I am, and part of me says I'm not because it's for his own good!

OP posts:

Villanellebelle · 15/11/2019 12:30

That's a tricky one, you can't insist he goes home he a a grown up and paying rent. But I would probably end the arrangement as it does seem you are becoming his carer. He's not your responsibility

User3billion · 15/11/2019 12:30

What a tricky situation. Yanbu it wanting to try & protect him but at the same time I don't think there's much you can actually do.

I'd not want to come home to the potential he'd taken his own life either.

Di11y · 15/11/2019 12:31

you can strongly encourage as his friend, but you can't insist as his landlord.

CottonHeadedNinyMuggins · 15/11/2019 12:33

There's no nice way of saying it, there is a chance that he hasn't been invited 'home' for Christmas because they may think he would 'ruin' Christmas (I mean it more sensitively than it sounds but there isn't a 'nice' way) as they don't understand his mental health issues as mentioned in your post.

We have (sort of similar) personal experience - noone ever wanted my grandfather but he was a drunken, abusive and violent arse who enjoyed ruining every single Christmas for everyone including children.

Auradal · 15/11/2019 12:35

Awful situation.
But you can't make him go home for Christmas. If he wants to stay in his home, which he is paying rent for, the whole time that and not see his family that his choice.
Quite a lot of people with mental health issues also have issues within their families which exacerbate the mental health issues and going to spend Christmas with them could just make everything worse.

Is there anyone at the mental health team you can talk to about this problem of him being alone in the house over Christmas? They may be able to put something in place for him.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/11/2019 12:36

It's not a perfect situation, but kicking him out would be immoral, and finding a new lodger is a pain in the arse and a roll of the dice

Fortunately, nobody's suggested that you "kick him out" - only that you consider your own role in this and think about whether giving notice so he might live elsewhere with appropriate support wouldn't be a better outcome

It's absolutely your choice to make, but I hope you'll bear in mind that with public services, anyone with a pulse will be written up as the "designated carer" if it gets a box ticked ...

BrigidSt · 15/11/2019 12:39

Consider that him living with you and you acting as his carer (which is what this is, friends by now or not, there are boundaries for him and for you) means that he doesn't meet thresholds for support, care and treatment that he would have access to if he lived alone. His family are irrelevant, so are you. You are helping him and thats nice for you, but you are also creating barriers for him that wouldnt exist if he lived alone. If he can't live alone, he shouldnt be living with you. His personal problems are none of your business. If he is suicidal, mentally ill, even if he did attempt again or succeed, you have provided an environment for that behaviour to thrive. Its not healthy, or appropriate. I've been where he is.

3timeslucky · 15/11/2019 12:42

You're not U to talk to him about why you think this is a good idea for him (and why staying alone is not). But obviously you can't make him. When his family visits can you talk to them (with him there)? Even if he stays maybe they'd visit him? Or check in with him? Maybe in that conversation he'd commit to checking in with his family if he won't go to them. The issue is his safety not where he is. While it isn't your responsibility no-one wants to have someone they know kill themselves, no-one want to think "if only I'd ..." and no-one wants to come back from their Christmas break to find a dead person in their house (no-one even wants to be considering that possibility over Christmas). So you are not being U in having lots of concerns and trying to find a solution - as much for yourself as for him.

What a difficult situation for you

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 15/11/2019 12:45

If OP gives him notice that won't result in him living somewhere "with appropriate support". He'll just be in another flat-share or rental arrangement, but this time not with a friend who cares about him. Being under the care of CMHT wouldn't automatically entitle him to any form of supported accomodation- those places are extremely scarce and from what OP has said I doubt her friend would meet the threshold.

I'm not saying OP shouldn't give him notice if that's what she wants to do, but she shouldn't kid herself that she'd be doing him a favour.

BrendasUmbrella · 15/11/2019 12:45

You sound really lovely. If you genuinely don't mind being his carer as well as landlord that's great, he's lucky to have you in his life. But he does still deserve some independence as an adult. If he'd rather have a quiet Christmas alone, that's his choice.

By the way, if you are doing a lot for him it may be worth finding out if you are entitled to carers allowance?

Span1elsRock · 15/11/2019 12:45

I think you need to put some strong boundaries in place, OP, and that means not taking any level of responsibility for him.

Yes you can be friendly, but don't become his carer because all the shit will land firmly on your doorstep.

And if you are friends, I think a conversation about your concerns at leaving him over Christmas and not wanting to come home to the horror of a body in the house would be acceptable.

It's home to both of you.

LolaDabestest · 15/11/2019 12:45

He has serious issues I personally would speak to his family they need to take some responsibility.

Wingedharpy · 15/11/2019 12:48

Ha ha @3timeslucky!
Apologies for my warped sense of humour.
Personally, I don't want dead people cluttering up my house at any time of year, Christmas or not!

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 15/11/2019 12:48

He has serious issues I personally would speak to his family they need to take some responsibility.

OP has said he doesn't want his family to know about his MH issues. As an adult he has a right to make that choice and he may have good reasons. Not every family is supportive, or even safe.

Lovemusic33 · 15/11/2019 12:50

I would let him stay if that what he wants, maybe suggest his family visit him?

My dd has Aspergers and really struggles with the social side of Christmas and hates being away from home so I’m sure she would chose to stay home alone rather than visit family.

If he harms himself it’s not your problem, you can’t be there all the time to stop him doing something silly, you are his landlord not his carer or support worker.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/11/2019 12:50

supported accomodation ... places are extremely scarce and from what OP has said I doubt her friend would meet the threshold

This is very true, but it's safe to say the lodger will have no chance at all of accessing any alternative accommodation while OP's caring for him - and it's quite clear from the description that she is adopting the role of a carer (while incidentally doesn't require "qualifications", OP)

As said, only OP can make this decision, but it would be unfair not to point out that folk can become trapped in an unexpected, endless caring role only too easily

Pinkblueberry · 15/11/2019 12:53

It’s a difficult situation - but YABVU in telling him to ‘go home’. I’ve been a lodger - and where I lodged was certainly my home and under no circumstances would my fantastic landlady have made me feel like it wasn’t. We had a tenancy agreement - you need to put one in place, that’s also quite an issue.

JinglingHellsBells · 15/11/2019 13:05

@CupOfTeaAndSixBiscuits
This is not really about Christmas. This is about whether you can leave an adult man with MH issues in your home for a few days.

Yes, Christmas can be a difficult time for anyone lonely or with MH issues. But it's all the other days of the year that matter too.

How will you and he cope if you go on holiday for a week or two?

Be honest- are you saying you cannot leave him?

There are far too many blurred lines here. Your subject line is disingenuous. You say he is a lodger but your update says he is now a friend and you have mutual friends, and you just happen to charge him rent.

You have become emotionally involved in what ought to be a business arrangement.

If he is a friend now and you do care about him why don't you offer to take him to your family with you? That's what a friend would do!

You have in fact become a parent to him.
Your only choices are you stomach the worry of him being alone at Christmas and get on with your own life, or you re-think the entire role you have created for yourself around this man, which may mean you have to let him go . It doesn't mean he will end up somewhere worse- maybe he can find a house share with other younger people and it will help his MH issues. At the moment you are creating a dependency which is not helping either of you.

UhareFouxisci · 15/11/2019 13:07

YANBU to be uneasy about this setup, though I think you are unnecessarily fixated on Christmas when that isn't really the issue.

Christmas is not a good time for those of us with an Autistic Spectrum Diagnosis. Normal routines go awry, there's heightened emotional expectations. It can feel very overwhelming. Moving out of the family home to become independent was a huge step, probably beneficial on the whole but clearly with some hiccups. Going "home" for Christmas could feel like a step back for him.

Where you aren't being unreasonable - you are his landlady, not his live-in carer. You shouldn't have to deal with making sure he takes his meds or worry about his mental or physical wellbeing. If he needs that level of care he needs to get a place in supported accommodation where there is someone whose job it is to do these things. You are obviously a very nice person and your good nature is being taken advantage of. You will need to toughen up a bit and insist that this additional care is not a responsibility you can take on.

CustardySergeant · 15/11/2019 13:07

Puzzledandpissedoff "Fortunately, nobody's suggested that you "kick him out" "

Yes they have, e.g. Penners99 "Get him out and change the locks." Which I thought was cruel and heartless to put it mildly.

Personally I don't think you should insist he goes "home" for Christmas at all. That could be the worst possible thing for his state of mind, for all you know. If he prefers being in your home on his own I think you should allow him to.

FizzyGreenWater · 15/11/2019 13:11

should I have allowed him to take his own life without intervening?

Allowed?!

No.

This is no longer a lodger, the boundaries are so blurred they're now not visible. Be careful and ask yourself what you want here because the way you're going you'll start out with a lodger and end up with a dependant. And it will be because of your attitude to him not anything about him as a person. I have to say it seems all very caring on the surface but there's more than a whiff of you starting to boss and direct in the guise of helping. Too much mothering going on.

For Christmas: he is paying for his room, it's where he lives, it's nothing to do with you so please don't overstep - the concept of the homeowner basically trying to MAKE their paying lodger be at home or away on certain days is madly inappropriate and not at all part of supporting someone with fragile mental health.

Don't bustle in and make this your project.

JinglingHellsBells · 15/11/2019 13:11

OP doesn't he have any friends he can see at Christmas? You say he is 'quite social'? What about young people his own age or work colleagues? Surely you and his parents are not the only people in his life?
Maybe it would help him more to discuss what he will do on Christmas day on his own? ie would he cook his dinner, would he phone friends, would he visit any friends? Would he watch TV?

3timeslucky · 15/11/2019 13:14

@Wingedharpy
A very good point and an opinion I share! No time is a good time. (No apologies needed for the sense of humour )

Osirus · 15/11/2019 13:16

I'm also concerned that you gave no formal tenancy agreement. You both need the legal protection of this.

Lodgers do not get the same rights as tenants. This man is a lodger, not a tenant. They have pretty much no rights, and can technically be told to leave with no notice (although most people wouldn’t do this, I hope!).

Whatever you do, DO NOT draw up a tenancy agreement for a lodger.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/11/2019 13:18

Ah - apologies, CustardySergeant, I missed that one; you're quite right and I should have put "almost nobody"

It still leaves the general principle of just what OP's letting herself in for, though, and the earlier example of what happens if she goes on holiday is a good one. As somebody said, it's only too easy to blur the lines between what's appropriate and what isn't, and the implications well beyond just Christmas are worth looking at

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6