To contact dog breeder and ask him not to sell puppy to my sister?

[BJsHair]

My sister (25) is autistic but very, very immature for her age (she still plays with teddy bears and watches cartoons). She lives alone and is not coping well. Does not work, barely leaves the house.

She gets obsessions. An example of her obsessions was the time she got obsessed with Ford Ka cars. So much so that she actively tried to buy one despite the fact that she doesn’t (and never will) drive. She just wanted it to sit in and decorate. She had no idea about insurance or road tax ... it was basically just to be a giant toy.

Anyway, I’m a dog breed enthusiast and my sister has now become obsessed with the same breed. I put years of research into the breed before I bought my first dog, organised dog training and socialisation classes before I got her and spent hours and hours on training. I’d had dogs before but not this breed. The breed is NOT a first time dog owner breed. In the wrong hands they can be dangerous. My sister is terrified of my dogs, has never owned a dog before yet is adamant that she is buying a puppy from this litter ... she’s going to pay her deposit on Friday. I’ve tried talking her out of it and my mum says I’m being selfish saying “why is it ok for you to have one but not her?”. They just don’t understand. AIBU to go directly to breeder and tell him not to sell her one?

To be fair, our responses on this post are because of OP's sister's reported behaviour, NOT because she is ASD. Nobody who rarely leaves the house and doesn't understand dog training is essential should be allowed to have a breed like a Dobermann, NT or not.

And dogs can be good companions for ASD people. My XP has a Labrador, but he was brought up with them and understands their care. Just not a high-needs breed and one that OP would be willing to help her sister with.

Defiantly doing the right thing op.

I wish I could have done the same with many dogs iv seen bought by people with no intention of giving the dog what it needs.

And they have all been NT.

I hope you find another interest for your sister. Is she in rented accommodation? Maybe you could get the landlord to re- iterate the No pets rule. If she's been telling people about getting a dog there's no saying it was you telling the landlord.

Christ, the number of people suggesting 'Just get her another type of dog' is depressing. I never fail to be amazed at how clueless so many people are about what pets need (as opposed to what most people actually give them) in terms of care.

The OP's description of her sister is a description of someone who is absolutely not capable of looking after a pet of any kind.

OP, you've definitely done the right thing.

Agree you've done the best thing for all concerned.

Yanbu

But how difficult for your sister it must be to navigate life.

There really should be some kind of controls on dog ownership, particularly large breeds who have the potential to harm people if they are not correctly looked after. Your sister could seek out another breeder even when this one refuses to let her have the dog.

@SarfE4sticated what awful advice and terrible attitude. Small dogs are not toys and them being treated as such results in snappy aggressive little dogs.
Miniature dachshunds are definitely not for uninformed dog owners. They are notoriously difficult to train and as a pp said they can have awful health issues if not handled and treated properly due to their shape.

Well done, OP.

she has no interest in dogs. Her obsession is very, very specific ... it focussed on Doberman’s only. Not the training, care or anything practical, just the Doberman itself. As though it were a toy.

I think you did absolutely the right thing. I hope that the breeder treats your sister sympathetically, and I hope that your mum and your sister don't blame you.

So many people shouldn't be allowed to buy dogs that are completely unsuitable for them. Plenty of "responsible" people who look absolutely fine on paper are clueless - see the PP's tales about how many people wanted a husky puppy with no clue about what the breed requires. They get dumped in rescue with behaviour problems. It's not fair if it can be prevented, and responsible breeders will do their best.

If OP's sister was obsessed to the point of spending all her time with her sister's dogs, researching all the training, channelling the obsessive tendencies into things that would help and benefit the dog and herself, that'd be one thing. But what OP describes is not a good set-up for a Doberman at all.

Yes tell the breeder. I've even gone behind a close friend's back and contacted their medical practitioner to tell them inside information because I knew the friend would not tell the medic these things and I knew they were central to her case. I had qualms but felt it was in friend's best interest for the medic to know more of the full story. Medic was suitably discreet and did not let on about my 'treachery'. Let's hope for the dog's sake that your sister doesn't just find a similar dog from elsewhere!

Yep, responses pretty much predicted from people. Sigh, one last try.

OP - you're correct, I don't know her. Everyone on this thread doesn't know her - or know you, for that matter. Although I notice this hasn't been brought up in response to people who're agreeing with you.

I'm not sure why you posted in AIBU if you're going to get riled about an alternative view. Unless of course, you're just looking for validation for your course of actions - and you've certainly got that from pretty much everyone, so I don't see why one person with an different perspective is such a bad thing but it's interesting that it's singled me out as a target on the thread.

We've just got your word for how bad you believe her behaviour to be. But all your posts show more compassion for the dog than your sister.

Also, I can't help noticing that she appears to be younger than you, and she's either a half-sister or step-sister, with autism, who must've required a fair bit of care from her Mum, in addition to getting inheritance from grandparents which allows her to buy things you consider pointless. That must cause a bit of resentment.

In regards to the dog - I agree that it's likely a bad idea and I think your role in talking to her and advising her not to do this is absolutely appropriate and supportive coming from her sister. But again, you don't categorically know how she'll deal with any given situation.

Regardless - and I can't stress this strongly enough - it is not your job to police what your sister can and cannot do. She's an adult and we don't know if her behaviour is as you describe - from your posts, you don't seem to like her very much. You talk about your mother in much the same way - calling her gullible and naive. You are not your sister's carer, you are not her mother, you are not her manager, you're not her case worker; so strongly-worded advice is where you need to stop. If you're that worried about her living on her own, I'd have thought you might have spoken to Social Services to find a way to support her, instead of only intervening to phone up a breeder and telling him not to sell her a dog.

If she's got enough money, she'll just go to another breeder. And then another one. Are you really going to stalk her behaviour and then call every breeder she speaks to, to tell them about this? Why are you trying to impose your will on a situation that's out of your hands and out of your control?

I have a relative much like you, who knows me very well. She felt entitled to tell me what I could and couldn't do. Told me I shouldn't be living on my own, told a couple of my old boyfriends that I wasn't capable of empathy or loving them back but I was vulnerable and very easily fooled and that I would be a handful for them to cope with.

She even called Social Services when I was pregnant as she believed I wasn't capable of looking after a child and I'd emotionally damage it, or neglect it, or get bored with it. She was doing it "for my sake, and the sake of the baby." I ended up being interviewed, them doing a home check and seeing me a few times after the baby was born, then being completely discharged as they didn't see any risk and were happy I was fulfilling my duties. I was tempted to frame and gift her the SS letter saying I a good parent and provided a secure, happy and age-appropriate environment for my child.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with her actions or not. You have no legal say over her behaviour, so as much as you want to control this situation, it really isn't up to you to decide what she does or what she's capable of. I wonder if you might have a misconception that her life is so much easier than yours and you resenting her trying to get in on "your" thing. When, actually, she might just be trying to find a way to identify and relate to you, in the mistaken belief it'll give you both something in common.

Leave it to the people who are responsible for looking after your sister and, if you're worried, raise it with them. But beyond that point, you have to walk away and let it go because you legally cannot do anything else.

I think everyone's missing the point on this thread. It doesn't matter if we think it's a bad idea and could be potentially dangerous. We don't know the full situation, we don't know the relationship and it appears that everyone's advocating for one sister to be able to control another and insulting her to strangers, without being able to verify the context.

But ok, whatever - ASD's the worst thing, we're utterly incapable of caring for other living things, we make everyone's lives terrible, it's such a bad idea for her to have a dog, everyone's just concerned for her safety and none of this is patronising, prejudiced or authoritarian whatsoever. That magical term "autism" seems to makes it ok on here to justify writing someone off as incapable and "needing" to be controlled.

There's only going to be a few breeders of this sort of dog especially in the immediate area so actually it's probably quite possible that OP can block any purchase of a Doberman puppy.

And it's absolutely the right thing to do, you don't need to be someone's carer to act in a responsible manner like that in the interest of everyone's welfare. Speaking to breeders within the dog community in which OP is involved doesn't require any "legal say", that's an irrelevance.

As I said, I have ASD and I don't take it as a slight on me personally so I'm not sure why you do finitemonkeys ? There's clearly very different levels of ability within the spectrum.

finitemonkeys I totally get what you are saying, but, if you take the autism out of it, I'd say the OP should still have contacted the breeder to let them know that the person they are considering selling a big, powerful dog to someone who may not be in a suitable situation to take care of that dog.

It's up to the breeder what he does with that information.

It's not the autism, it's the lack of preparation or understanding of what an animal like that needs.

Someone I know gets animals that are totally unsuitable for them time after time. When it's dogs, they've no intention of walking them (back garden only), they don't train them, and every time they "researched" the breeds and supposedly they're the perfect fit - this time it will be different because X, Y, Z. They're always wrong. They've rehomed 4 at the last count. They also get other animals too which go the same way. If I could call up a breeder and tell them to think carefully about selling to them, I would. They're NT and to all appearances a responsible person, no reason for a breeder to think otherwise. They just shouldn't have animals.

it is not your job to police what your sister can and cannot do.

finitemonkeys it's not just the OP's sister at stake here though. There is another living, breathing creature with needs and emotions involved. And it isn't good enough to say "deal with it down the line if there's a problem" because by that time the dog has been damaged and we have another big, dangerous, fearful or aggressive dog dumped in kennels by someone who should never have had a puppy in the first place. It should be a privilege to own a dog and at the very least a prospective owner should have researched what it involves. The OP's sister has not even looked up how much exercise a Dobermann needs, how to train one or interacted in any way with the OP's own dog. That would be inappropriate for a NT person thinking of dog ownership. So far as I'm concerned and the reason I was one of many telling the OP to contact the breeder, my priority is for the puppy here. Maybe in time the sister will demonstrate that she understands the commitment involved in owning a pet and put some work in beforehand to set her and the pet up for a fulfilling life together. But it doesn't sound as though she's anywhere near that point now. That isn't an indictment on you or any other autistic person. It's about this puppy, right now, and an individual unsuited to having a dog at present.

Definitely the right thing to contact the breeder

Also it seems as though the sister may not just be on the autistic spectrum, but may also have some level of learning difficulty?
I have two very good friends on the spectrum , one who has a large family and is extremely capable and reliable, the other childless and a shrewd judge of character with an interesting life. In both cases they have been diagnosed as adults after a life feeling out of kilter and finding certain things difficult. Both women have been highly responsible pet owners.
On the other hand we have a family member who has never been able to live alone without support, and would not have coped looking after a pet. He has possible ASD issues plus a learning difficulty and/or mental health problem, his diagnosis has never been very clear.
So this isn’t an autism issue, it is a vulnerable and immature person issue.

I had to jump through hoops to convince a rescue place that I'd be a fit owner for a cat. I was asked all sorts of personal questions, quizzed on my knowledge, and visited at home.
A cat. Not a Doberman who would need intensive training. And no way would the OP's sister, even if her learning disability was half as bad as reported, have been found fit to have it.

I googled the breed out of curiosity and was really surprised about one of the breeders websites I looked at.
It seemed very professional but in the description of the puppies they were selling it said something along the lines of whether playing dress up with the children or snuggled next to you on the sofa this puppy will complete your family!
Which seems really at odds with what you say about them.

I'm glad that the breeder was sensible when you spoke to them and hopefully will do the right thing.

Right on the Edge, I think you may have been looking up the American Doberman rather than the European, as I too, not knowing anything about the breed have just Googled them, this is one of the first things I read:

'The main differences are that an American Doberman Pinscher is a sleek, elegant, show dog that possesses an ideal temperament for use as a family pet, while the European Doberman is a slightly larger, more muscular dog with a high drive and a temperament better suited for use as a working dog'.

The OP is talking about the European Doberman, but perhaps you haven't read the full thread?

Well done OP for contacting the breeder, and unlike some others I don't see any lack of love for your sister, if you didn't care for her, why would you even bother?? I think you're being a loving caring sister, who is trying to protect both the animal and the person in this difficult situation.

@finitemonkeys stop making this thread all about YOU.

I agree the OP did the right thing. The sister is not a responsible potential dog owner. Very many NT people aren't either. The stakes are too high in this instance to stand back and allow a terrible injury to happen and the dog PTS. The OP also feels responsible for helping her sister not make a massive life mistake. That's being a good sister. She also no doubt knows it will be her that picks up the pieces and rehomes a dangerous aggrresive unsocialised untrained dog because she won't feel able to let it be PTS in a shelter.

OP, can you steer her towards a new safe toy like obsession? Sounds like she just wants something cute to dress up and play with.

@BJsHair: did the breeder contact your sister? Have you heard anything?

You have done the right thing OP

@finitemonkeys I think you are projecting. I'm sorry that people have questioned your capabilities but the scenarios aren't comparable here. Also dogs aren't just something you can take back to the shop if you don't get along with, if it's not treated or trained correctly it will end up in a kennels and most likely end up being put down.

With the way you're describing her - no way I would let her have a dog, even the most placid and nice one. It's about the dog's well-being.
Please do tell the breeder, most definitely.

P.S. A Doberman - wow. No way the breed is suitable for even a very responsible first time owner. They need some really intense training, discipline and attention.

YANBU and you have 100% done the right thing.

You’ve absolutely done the right thing. I have two daughters with asd and it is a spectrum. But the OP knows her sister. Both my girls are very different but because I’m their mum and I love them yes I do police some of their decision because I want to keep them safe because they don’t always see issues that could compromise their safety. No one is disrespecting anyone with autism saying they’re incapable of being a decent pet owner or that they’re useless at all. The OP is saying a dog, especially a Doberman would not be suitable nor safe for her sister. Because she cares about her sister and about the puppy she may purchase.

You've done the right thing, OP.

Did she pay the deposit op?