To think we did nothing wrong?

[sadaboutlife]

I went away for the weekend with a guy I'm seeing and a friend and her boyfriend.
My friend was driving and me and the guy I'm seeing in the back.
It's a pretty new thing and we were chatting all the way home in the car.
She kept say ..can you both shut up talking your doing my head in.
We kept quite for a bit and then sometimes forgot and spoke again.
She was really annoyed
Did we really do anything wrong here?
She is actually angry that we didn't sit in silence

Well that explains the crap driving I see day in, day out. It explains the poor overtaking decisions, the lack of ability to read the road ahead, the lack of ability to see anything that isn't dressed like a Christmas tree (and sometimes not even that), the phone use, the speeding and the whinging when other road users force drivers to concentrate. Sod "the zone", try concentrating when you're on the road.

that 100%

We've all seen what happens when lorry drivers go on "autopilot" - with the size of their vehicles, it's deadly.

Ah but math, as a fellow person with misophonia you should know that noise created/chosen by the sufferer does not affect them in the same way as noise created by someone else. My misophonia would have had me murderous after 3 hours of constant chatter noise from the back seat. Music I'd chosen for myself and my own singing? Wouldn't affect me.

Not saying this is the case here with this OP though, it sounds to me like OP and her new squeeze were just annoying AF all weekend and friend had enough, but misophonia could also be an explanation.

Exactly, you go into autopilot. I don't think it would be possible to concentrate fully for three hours - that would be tiring.

And that is why the Highway Code recommends that you take a 15 minute break every 2 hours.
www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-drivers-and-motorcyclists-89-to-102

I'll say this for MN. It gives me insight into various things, including poor driving standards.

I'm not sure how many posters on here have actually done much long distance driving.

I'm not sure how many posters on here have actually done much long distance driving.

but I am sure how many really SHOULDN'T!

What are we counting as long distance here?

Any distance where you would find it surprising that you'd go into automatic driving but consider it dangerous. It's just something drivers do - it doesnt mean you start swerving all over the road. I think the human brain can only concentrate fully for something like 20 minutes at a time.

I'd say 3 hours was long distance

That makes sense :) I used to think 3 hours was long distance and then I started talking to people living in America where they're breezy about a regular five hour drive :o

but I am sure how many really SHOULDN'T!

It's both interesting and concerning that posters seem to think "autopilot" is a badge of honour and sign of experience. I've been driving for 25 years. I've been riding bikes and horses on the road for 40 years. If I were to say I went onto autopilot when cycling would people take that as a sign of experience? Or would they think I should concentrate because it's dangerous?

Driving is incredibly dangerous, more so for those around us than for those in the car, in part due to the design of modern cars. We switch off part of our brain that would naturally panic about the danger in order to cope with it. But so many people switch off too much and are dangerous. Are they swerving on the road? Well more than you might think. I can spot drivers using a phone because they don't maintain speed or hold a line. And I'm sick to the back teeth of SMIDSY. You'd fucking see me if you thought I constituted a danger to you and if you bothered looking instead of being on autopilot.

You were only moaning the other day about how much she was charging you for the drive.
Hell, I dont think i could be your friend and i think you were being very rude to ignore her requests for silence.
Maybe she had had some bad news? Maybe she had a headache? Maybe she didn't want to listen to you prattle on to the guy you're sleeping with (not a guy you're in a relationship, as you posted elsewhere that you are just fwb)!

Not read anyone saying going into autopilot is a badge of honour. I think people are trying to explain how you drive on longer distances to posters who don't seem to understand. Maybe "autopilot" is the wrong word as it seems to be having connotations, with some, of driving like a zombie. It's not that at all, it's kind of going in the zone. You are still alert, it's just a different level of concentration. I'm guessing that the brain has to do this to cope. Only idiots completely switch off and act dangerously.

BTW been driving for decades without causing an accident or getting a speeding ticket.

Driving for three hours is pretty hard work, maintaining concentration so that you keep everyone in the car safe is a big responsibility.

She asked you repeatedly to keep quiet and you ignored it so that you could flirt with your new beau...and you don't see at all that you were in the wrong? You sound like a pretty shitty friend to be honest.

If you talk to someone beside you in the car you have to speak loud enough to cover the noise of the engine. That probably means it sounds louder to someone in front of you. Same happens in theatre/cinema the person chatting to their friend beside them actually sounds louder to the person directly in front.
Keep that in mind next time!

I think she was extremely rude. I give people lifts all the time to events and I'm quite happy for them to chat away in the back without me having to join in so I can just concentrate on the road! I agree it's absolutley bizarre to expect people to sit in the back in silence.

All I know is, that I would have had a hard job to concentrate on an unfamiliar road, especially at night and raining, and thats without a background hubub. Driving is hard work and requires the utmost concentration, I might have done the same, and would be livid if I could hear whispering instead. DONT DISTRACT THE DRIVER. YABU

damntheman I agree wrt misophonia.

I agree with others that the driver was annoyed by endless flirty talk, maybe silly pet names, maybe a bit too much giddy giggling or laughter, with the emphasis on 'endless'.

This is the 3rd thread I’ve seen from you in the last few days. The first one was complaining about the amount of petrol money your friend wanted for doing the driving for the trip. The second was about how your fuckbuddy doesn’t want a relationship with you, is shagging other women, but how you talked and laughed till you cried all weekend.

Ah - then I think we can totally see why your friend was annoyed. Watching a friend do the Pick Me Dance would be excruciating under any circumstances, never mind when you driving for three hours.

YABU - and dump the loser bloke!

Mothership4two - yes, autopilot isn't quite the right word. It's a zone. Holistic concentration, if you will.

To those (Vanhi) unable to understand the concept of a 'driving zone' that doesn't require minute by minute conscious concentration, I have been driving safely and without a ticket since 1988, frequently over long distances (9-10 hours in the car, with 1-5 DCs in the back - the number of DCs increased over the years) and even in poor driving conditions.

Maybe compare driving concentration to touch typing? You don't have to be consciously aware of each key's position. Or maybe even reading fluently while at the same time grasping the gist of what you are reading? You are not sounding out each word, just seeing word shapes and your brain is turning it all into a comprehensible whole that is more than the sum of its parts.

There are interrelated visual and intellectual mechanics at play that are hard to describe. An experienced driver can process sensory information when driving on an intuitive level as opposed to a conscious level.

Sounds like she was already annoyed with you about something and it was making her short-tempered.

@mathanxiety you're confusing "unable to understand" with "understands perfectly well and disagrees with". It's rather arrogant to assume that someone who doesn't say "aha I get you now, all is clear" is just too dim to understand rather than admit they just don't agree with you.

I have been driving safely and without a ticket since 1988, frequently over long distances (9-10 hours in the car, with 1-5 DCs in the back - the number of DCs increased over the years) and even in poor driving conditions.

My mum's been driving since the 1960s. Never been in a serious collision, never been in a collision that's her fault. Was the sole driver for the family until my brother passed his test at 19. Drove at least 10k miles a year, does long distance drives, also never been ticketed. Does that make her safe? Well yes and no. There's a large amount of luck in that when she has made mistakes. some twat coming the other way hasn't been doing something equally stupid. Individual anecdotes count for little, what you want is more wide-ranging data.

That data indicates that we're not particularly safe on the roads. Far less safe than we are when we use other forms of transport. No driver (well almost none) will say "yes, I'm occasionally crap and inattentive and it's just luck I've got away with it" but that's the reality for many. I spend a considerable amount of time on the roads driving, walking, cycling and horse riding. Every time, mile after mile, I see near misses and poor driving that don't result in a collision out of pure luck rather than good judgement. Yet if you asked the drivers involved, I can pretty much guarantee they think they're good and there's no problem. I know this because when I catch up with them and ask why on earth they did something so patently dangerous, they deny there was a problem.

I suggest you do some reading around things like inattentional blindness and the psychology of how we see threats on the road. I know full well what you mean by a driving attention zone, what I disagree with is the idea that this is safe. It's when you are operating in that zone that you're less likely to be aware of things that are not an immediate threat to you - be that pedestrians, or cyclists or just a cat on the road. So yes fine, you're a great safe driver for you, but that doesn't mean that everyone on the road around you is having a lovely time when you're in your driving bubble.

If you don't think you would be capable of doing this when driving, then best you don't drive long distance then.

Near misses and poor driving may be down to just that 'poor driving' and not necessarily the kind of concentration we have been discussing. Unfortunately there are drivers out there that take risks, speed, cut up other drivers, undertake, not taking breaks, etc.

Vanhi, I take it you don't drive much, because it is clear you don't know what you are talking about when you are disagreeing with my comments and Mothership's on the sort of concentration mode you get into when behind the wheel. Whatever you imagine it means, it doesn't mean 'inattentive', and it isn't a 'driving bubble'. It's not a 'driving attention zone' either in the sense that you seem to imply, that is 'more or less paying attention'. You are paying full attention and processing sensory input but in a mode that is specific to driving. It's an intuitive mode. You notice yourself feeling mentally tired when you first start driving, and if you've been away from driving for a while and then return you notice the mode returning, but driving can feel unfamiliar at first.

I am well aware of the data. Yes the roads are dangerous.

No, you do not need to be consciously - determinedly - concentrating every single second of your trip. Your anecdotes notwithstanding, safe driving is a matter of sensory processing on a level that is not the same as conscious, minute-by-minute concentration, for instance of the sort you need when operating an electric drill.

Why are you catching up with drivers and quizzing them on their driving?

Vanhi, I take it you don't drive much, because it is clear you don't know what you are talking about

And again with the "you disagree, therefore you don't understand/ don't know what you're talking about". I've been driving regularly and frequently since 1995. We can keep going round and round this but I have a feeling every time I disagree, you're just going to tell me it's because I don't understand.

Why are you catching up with drivers and quizzing them on their driving?

Drivers will very frequently overtake cyclists where it is unsafe and unnecessary. (And to preempt you, the majority of adult cyclists drive, the reverse isn't true. This means most cyclists understand driving, but few drivers understand cycling.) Cyclists tend to refer to this as an overtakey brakey, or an MGIF - Must Get In Front. It's not a question of catching up with deliberately, it's often unavoidable. Car driver thinks they can make an overtake, despite oncoming vehicle in full view, overtakes, gets part way through manoeuvre, realises they're on a collision course, slams brakes on and veers towards cyclist. At that stage you often end up yelling "what the fuck are you doing and why are you trying to overtake?" At which point the response tends to be some combination of "why are you on the road?". "It was fine, I had room". Or even just "I didn't see them coming" as if it's defence rather than admission of guilt.

I got so fed up with the poor standard of driving I experienced that I read up about why and what is going on. There are studies like this one on failure of drivers to see pedestrians and cyclists. One of the interesting things about results of that one is that when drivers were less familiar with an area they were more cautious.

There’s more on inattentional blindness and failure to see here. What is interesting is the significant role our brains play in processing what we see. This article by an RAF pilot explains more on this and how it affects driving.

I know what you mean about a level of practise that makes tasks easier. In terms of ability to control the vehicle this obviously helps when driving. What bothers me is the sheer number of drivers who think it also helps when reading the road. Cue another round of “if you disagree you must be thick/ inexperienced/ incapable”.

I am not talking about inattentional blindness or failure to see.

Nor am I talking about controlling a vehicle. Controlling the vehicle becomes second nature when you have been driving for a while. This goes for both manual and automatic transmission vehicles.

I am talking about reading the road in a way that does not require the sort of focus necessary when someone starts learning to drive or if someone drives infrequently, when conscious focus is required. Defensive driving, done right, can prevent a lot of accidents.

As an aside, as a cyclist, expecting the unexpected and being prepared to deal with hazards is as valid a rule on two wheels as it is on four.

I would consider approaching a driver who has driven dangerously a very dangerous thing in and of itself. No good can possibly come from a confrontation, imo, just as no good can come from rolling down your window to reprimand another driver if driving or loud horn blowing. The road is not the place for 'teaching moments', and the heat of the moment is not the time for them. It is best to just let them off on their merry way and take a few deep breaths before continuing on yours. Furious driving or cycling is always dangerous because it disturbs your mental driving zone.