Thrown out of restaurant for bringing newborn baby

[toddlermom]

Hi all,

Just need to vent and wondering if I should complain and if so who to. We went to one of my (ex) favourite London restaurants (Amaya) last night (wearing 5 week old baby in cloth sling, as I often do).

Walked in, got to our table, I took off my jacket and went to sit down but the waitress stopped me and said I couldn't sit down and had to leave the restaurant as she could now see (that I had taken off jacket) that I had a baby and 'children aren't allowed in the restaurant". I said it was a baby - who was asleep - and unlikely to wakeup - and she said it didn't matter, they don't let any children in the restaurant.

The manager came over, said the same thing, they were really, really rude and unfriendly. Didn't say sorry or sympathise, empathise in any way.

They don't have any social media presence so I can't even tweet them and vent on social. I could write a letter to the owner? Or is there anything else I should do? Or AIBU and just not go there again? Any advice welcome!! Thank you!

Glad you see YABU op, and I don't expect you to return but struggle to believe you're only just learning (after 4dc) that some restaurants have a child-free policy! If you regularly eat at Amaya, you must be used to fine dining, yes? It's just absurd. Equally absurd is expecting staff to ask about children when people make a reservation. What if it's a couple who have recently lost a baby? When my DB/SIL miscarried after years of failed IVF they avoided places with children as it was too painful at the time.

At Nephew's school the HT has a policy of no babies and toddlers at Parent workshops and weekly assemblies. I bloody wish DCs school would implement this rule too as I am so sick of attending these workshops and never being able to hear over wailing babies, toddlers babbling loudly or playing loud games on a phone. And the mums just fucking sit there. When my DS2 was a toddler I didn't attend as he couldn't sit still and DS1s teacher happily filled me in with what I'd missed (never a lot, mind). I can't imagine very many people going to a Michelin starred restarant and leaving midway if their baby starts to cry. It just doesn't happen.

Children banned from restaurants, one of those ‘only in the U.K.’ moments

I wasn't allowed into a restaurant in India because I had my daughter with me.
I had been there before but only for lunch, they had a no children after 6:30 pm rule.

"5 weeks baby's don't make much fuss usually, they usually have that gorgeous little cry like a little goat not the loud shrill howl of older children."

...attitudes like this is why blanket bans are in place. It’s people who describe an infant’s cry as “gorgeous” who don’t understand in a fancy establishment the 1st wail has disturbed everyone around you, made them stop conversation & look around at where the noise is coming from. People are paying premium for the ambiance, which the restaurant must maintain. Presumably Op liked the ambiance as it was her favourite place.

It’s odd when booking to not say “table for 2 plus my newborn”. 3 people were coming so it was incorrect to only mention 2. Pretty sure you assumed once you got to the table with baby they would be forced to accomodate.

People saying the restaurant should have offered free drinks as compensation or a quiet table in the corner - likely have not been to a Michelin/hatted restaurant before. They will have been booked out in advance so there is nowhere to move you & that quiet table is likely the best seat in the house! Should they be out of pocket by losing a table, giving away alcohol & moving patrons from their booked quiet table to accomodate your mistake ?

Free items & compensations are given for errors on the establishment’s behalf eg meal delays, incorrect orders etc...

My mind is spinning that people can honestly believe the Op deserved free drinks & a quiet table for failing to adhere to restaurant policy

As a restaurant manager I can assure you people do mention their newborns when booking, the fact this wasn’t mentioned at the time of reservation indicates to me you 100% knew about this policy & thought you could get away with it by wearing Baby as some form of accessory. I’m surprised you made it to the table, was the baby intentionally concealed or are you suggesting it was the maître-d’s fault for failing to notice your cloth slinged accessory upon arrival ? Did you choose to wear the baby over pram because you knew a pram would be turned away on arrival ?

Next time I’m in London england you best believe am visiting AMAYA - sorry Gordon & Heston

It’s not only in the Uk! Have you never left your continent? Child free establishments are not just in the UK & your country is not hateful towards children. If anything your reputation is all about babies!

The trope of the teen parents on benefits is strong, you can thank your awesome Uk reality shows & docos on that.

Seriously if you believe this you should travel more.

Also if you were thrown out it must’ve been quite the scene! Why didn’t you leave when the waiter informed you of the policy? Did you ask to speak to the manager to escalate the issue & bypass the waiter ? Oh to be a fly on the wall at AMAYA that night....

Can anyone confirm if AMAYA have picked this up & responded instantly social media? When the Mumsnetters booked reservations off the back of this thread did you inform them about the positive buzz they’ve been receiving on this forum ?

Also regarding but allergy - that is actually a more scientifically accurate policy. Traces of nuts can be found in so many things, likely this is a cuisine that uses a fair amount of items that could be contaminated. They are simply stating they can’t be held accountable for anaphylactic people. If you actually have a proper nut allergy then I expect you would understand why an establishment cannot 100% guarantee this. What if the kitchenhand ate a peanut butter sandwich before their shift ? I think they are more professional to admit their limitations than guarantee they can control nut traces in the air & cross contamination!

If they don't have a licence that allows children then they'd be breaking the law and risking huge fines and the licence holder even prison if they ignored. They can't just waive licensing rules because your baby is asleep. It counts for all under 18's

Well, I disagree with everyne here. I think such a policy ought to be illegal.

Do you have any idea the hoops that a premises has to jump through to actually be allowed to accommodate children. There are various children's licences that stipulate different times and circumstances that children can be in a premises that served alcohol which must be strictly adhered to. If a premises hasn't applied or hasn't met the requirements for the licence it's illegal to even have them there. How on earth could your suggestion even work? (I'm aware the restaurant in the op is partially policy rather than law but it's still absolutely at the licence holders discretion who they admit and when in all circumstances not just with children. This is also a rule that shouldn't change for many good reasons)

Everyone is entitled to a dinner out

Basic human right innit.

Of course the OP can eat at any restaurant she chooses.

I would argue that a Michelin Star restaurant is more than just a dinner. You’re paying for an experience. Otherwise you could probably find just as amazing Indian food at some little no name restaurant out in zone 6 worthy of a star based on food alone. To obtain stars they are going above & beyond. Yes eating is a basic human right but babies are not entitled to be a part of every human experience surely some things are ok to be for adults ? Why do some people not understand that doesn’t mean being anti kids, it’s just that sometimes adults want a quiet, intimate & special moment free of children & the vibe that they bring. The entitlement of some people is really astounding to perceive this as discrimination! If you leave the Bub at home you are welcome. It’s not discrimination. They aren’t allowing white babies & banning black ones. They aren’t discriminating if they have accommodated for kids at set times. They sound quite accommodating actually.

Do you have any idea the hoops that a premises has to jump through to actually be allowed to accommodate children.

Oh didn't you realise that everyone is an expert in licencing laws? They all know far better than anyone working in the trade, or actually having a personal/premises licence, simply by virtue of drinking alcohol. The customer is always right remember, that trump's the law too!
It's the people doing the serving and holding the licence that are at risk, and they don't matter, therefore people can make it up as they go along, demand whatever their heart desires and whinge when they don't get it and still be on the moral high ground!

"We booked over the phone I didn't check the website. Obviously wouldn't have brought her if I knew!!"

But after being told, at the restaurant, and presumably checking their website yourself when you got home, you decided to slate them on mn instead of just accepting that it was your error or an honest misunderstanding.

Well I've just booked. I actively seek out child-free restaurants and applaud them for sticking to their policy in the face of your complaints.

imagine if every time someone booked the person on the phone had a duty to inform you of their nut allergy policy, baby policy, etc.... should they be required to email you a copy of their booking terms & conditions ?

When you’re booking it’s your duty to give them the heads up that you have a nut allergy or will be bringing an extra human along. It’s just common sense & courtesy.

Claims of discrimination are just silly. There are times and places where small children are just not appropriate including child free restaurants, the theatre, cinema etc. There are thousands of restaurants that welcome children. And, I’d always include a baby in a booking as we tend to need space for the buggy. I have taken my children to relatively nice places but been prepared to remove them immediately if they are causing trouble.

I think it’s right that there are child free places. Your child is not the centre of everyone else’s universe. On holiday having a lovely meal it was ruined when a couple showed up with a screaming newborn (at 8pm). After failing to settle the child they just ignored the screams from the pram to eat their meals. I could barely hear my husband speak.

They state their childrens policy on their website.
If you can't be arsed reading it, don't blame anyone else.

Kids are allowed there but only at certain times. Stated clearly on the website.

Why did the manager have to come over? The waitress clearly told you the policy, did you push it to try and get them to change the policy for you? How entitled is that.

If you weren't happy with this you're only choice is to leave, it doesn't sound as if you were thrown out.

As you mentioned it was one of your favourite restaurants so you must have been happy with the service before so why feel the need to slate a company just because you didn't read their, very clear, website.

I suspect OP did know, hence keeping the baby under her jacket until she reached the table, in the hope that, as a regular, the restaurant would make an exception to the policy.

This is one of those threads that makes me think I live in a different world. All these people actively seeking out child free restaurants surprises me as I don't think I have ever noticed children being loud and noisy when I have been out so can't see the need to exclude them. It may be because I eat out fairly late though.The noisy people are always the large groups and if I could I would choose restaurants that excluded large groups rather than children. I suspect people wouldn't see that discrimination as reasonable though.

Kids are allowed there but only at certain times. Stated clearly on the website.

That's the problem though. If people go there regularly they may have seen children there before and think they are allowed. Who reads the website before visiting a restaurant they have been to before?

All these people actively seeking out child free restaurants surprises me

Really? It “surprises” you that other people want a different dining experience?

Or rather this is you wanting to be seen as really superior in your tolerance and are doing the whole “gosh I’m so surprised” schtick?

Really? It “surprises” you that other people want a different dining experience?

If you read my post you will see that it surprises me because I don't see it as a different dining experience. i.e. I have never noticed children screaming and running around everywhere when I eat out.

Or rather this is you wanting to be seen as really superior in your tolerance and are doing the whole “gosh I’m so surprised” schtick?

Again, if you read my post you will see that noisy adults in large groups annoy me so I'm not claiming to be tolerant. I would love it if restaurants started excluding them.

Yeah, it’s still not surprising that people have different experiences but hey ho.

MNers as a group seem to startle very easily over the most mundane concept so its not a surprise!

My DS is 2 now but I have never felt comfortable eating out with him in formal places because he doesn't get anything from it unless it is a child friendly place.
As a baby, if he was sleeping, he slept better in his own bed than he did in a pushchair or a sling at a restaurant. As a younger toddler, he wanted to be engaged, to play, to babble, be messy with his food etc, again, not suitable in a posh restaurant. Now as a nearly 3 year old, he just gets bored. The food is often a bit crap (chicken nuggets, fish fingers etc) and comes out way too hot on a red hot plate so I have to push it to one side to cool while he tried to snaffle the chips or whatever from my plate. Then the shouts of "mummy I need the potty" mid-meal and me trying to get us both into a small cubicle, hold him on the toilet while he always grabs at the sanbins. During the meal, he gets shushed, he can't play, he can't run, he can't just act like a 2 year old. We don't have loads of money so we don't eat out all that often so I don't really have the opportunity to 'train him'. As a result, I stick to child friendly places or visit nicer places when he is being looked after by the grandparents.

Yeah, it’s still not surprising that people have different experiences but hey ho.

It's not just one experience though is it? I am in my 50s so have eaten out a lot of restaurants and have never had my meal spoilt by children. In contrast my meal is often spoilt by adults shouting and (a few years ago) holding their cigarettes near me.