Thrown out of restaurant for bringing newborn baby

[toddlermom]

Hi all,

Just need to vent and wondering if I should complain and if so who to. We went to one of my (ex) favourite London restaurants (Amaya) last night (wearing 5 week old baby in cloth sling, as I often do).

Walked in, got to our table, I took off my jacket and went to sit down but the waitress stopped me and said I couldn't sit down and had to leave the restaurant as she could now see (that I had taken off jacket) that I had a baby and 'children aren't allowed in the restaurant". I said it was a baby - who was asleep - and unlikely to wakeup - and she said it didn't matter, they don't let any children in the restaurant.

The manager came over, said the same thing, they were really, really rude and unfriendly. Didn't say sorry or sympathise, empathise in any way.

They don't have any social media presence so I can't even tweet them and vent on social. I could write a letter to the owner? Or is there anything else I should do? Or AIBU and just not go there again? Any advice welcome!! Thank you!

When anyone phoned to book a table for two, the restaurant should always ask it they were planning on bringing a baby?

This would be ridiculous. The op should have checked.

It would obviously make sense for the restaurant to say "just so you're aware, the restaurant has a no-child policy at this time". How do they know the booking for two isn't a parent and their child, after all?

If a restaurant did this when I made a reservation I’d think they’d lost the plot.

This would be ridiculous

Why? Is it difficult for someone to say one sentence on the phone?

If I'm the business owner, I want to avoid having to ask customers to leave when they've already got there. Informing people when they book seems like a verrrry easy way to do that.

If a restaurant did this when I made a reservation I’d think they’d lost the plot

Lol really? Why? What is so crazy about that?

Seems like most people on mumsnet would be happy to hear it.

I had similar when someone I knew turned up with their small baby to a spa day. The spa reiterated their no children policy, and the person went a bit ape because she was a breast-feeding mother . No matter. Some people are breastfeeding four-year-olds, some babies are bottle fed - it's irrelevant. The rule is no children.

Really? You have to check all restaurant websites before making a booking? The restaurant should have informed her when she called.

Nope, you mention at the time of booking that you'll have a small baby with you.

I think it's more the fact that you said it was one of your favourite restaurants OP, which means there would be more of an expectation that you would know of any restrictions beforehand.

Anywhere that sells alcohol has to be licensed to do so. Protection of children, not just from alcohol, but the effects of others under the influence, is part of that license. Certain conditions such as times children must vacate the premises have to be adhered to or risk losing it all together.
Most policies like the one this restaurant have are dictated by the license. We don't allow children in after 9pm (license condition) so we don't allow children in the restaurant to eat after 7, so people aren't rushed.

People ought to have a right to dine in peace, without being disrupted by other customers. If they are not disturbed, it should be no one’s business if there are children there.

Except the licencing officers and police, and the premises putting their license at risk, and the people allowing it (the waitress and manager in this example) who could get a personal fine.

Age discrimination is illegal. I would like to see a test case on this.

Yes I can see it now.
"And why don't you allow children in your restaurant after 6pm?"
"Our license prohibits it, it would be illegal"
"But that's age discrimination"
"Which law should I break then?"

Of course it could be that it's not a license condition, they just don't want children there after a certain time. But that's their call. Pubs, restaurants etc are free to make their own rules within the law, that works for them.

YABU OP, and if it was your favourite place, that indicates service you are happy with generally, and not rude staff in general, until, of course, you were told something you didn't want to hear. Some people really do think that being told no is rude, regardless of the reason, how it's put across or anything else. The 'I want' demand isn't met and then the staff are accused of being rude because the customer is disgruntled that they can't have their own way, and saying the staff are rude makes them feel justified.
Oh and I don't ever apologise in a situation like this. Sympathise yes, but I wouldn't apologise in this situation. An apology indicates you've done something wrong that you need to apologise for. The staff didn't do anything wrong, therefore they have nothing to apologise for.

'Can I book a table for two please at 6.30pm?'

'Yes madam I need to ask if you will have a baby strapped to your front-I ask everybody that makes a reservation'

They shouldn’t have been rude but as pp have mentioned, it does say in their website no children.

I wouldn’t want to be paying a pretty penny to go somewhere for lunch and see someone with a newborn. I would be crossing my fingers that it didn’t start crying etc... it may not, but equally it may. There’s plenty of restaurants that allow children all the time so there’s plenty of alternatives. I wouldn’t bother complaining, just wasting your own time as they won’t change their rule.

I’m guessing this situation doesn’t happen a lot because if it did then they would mention it over the phone.

Most people probably think that firstly it’s not exactly a child friendly establishment. Or at least ask before turning up.

Totally agree that child free means child free even small babies. Because small babies do wake up and cry. I’m guessing if you’ve paid decent money at an expensive restaurant and your food arrives just as baby wakes up you’re going to be reluctant to leave.....or some people would be reluctant to leave anyway. Which then spoils it for everyone else.

It’s like people who take small babies/toddlers to nativity plays and cinema screenings, etc and promise to leave if they cry and then mid performance there’s a baby screaming blue murder with a mum trying to shush it but not actually leaving!

How loud are newborns?

My niece almost peeled the skin off me when she woke up. The first 15 minutes was a screechfest - worse if she didn’t wake naturally. I know all babies are different but some have the ability to pluck your last string and she did

I got accused of being rude to a customer once. I was hauled off the job and given my jotters as it was my word against his.

The only reason I wasn’t dismissed was because my supervisor was recording me for training purposes. Hugely lucky for me and it got me reinstated.

What did they say that was so rude? Or was it just the ‘no’ you found rude?

Given their very clear policy, why do you want to slate them on social media? It isn’t fair or kind.

After children I got used to checking if kids were allowed places, rather than assuming they were as you e discovered, children aren't always welcomed (especially on an evening).

We struggled to go many places in New York that sold alcohol, with children in tow.

You live and learn OP. No harm done.

Lol really? Why? What is so crazy about that?

Because it would be assuming the caller had small children and was planning to bring them along. Most people eating in Michelin star, Belgravia restaurants don’t.

But when you booked you clearly didnt mention bringing a baby did you-you jsut booked for you and parnter/friend and didnt say anyhting about children

Got to love the ones where everyone says YABU and they still dispute it.

I get why you're annoyed OP. I think they should tell people on the phone of their policies about children as I never look online either when I'm going to a restaurant. It's hard enough as it is to get out of the house with the 5 week old never mind having to find a last minute place to eat on a busy and freezing cold Saturday night too. My view is that some restaurants think they are above people treating them as what they are, a place to eat and honestly stupidly think that everyone is going there for an experience and will google the place to death and check up on everything about it before they go and plan it like a once in a lifetime event! If you don't allow children, when people phone to book, direct them to your bloody website about your policies on kids!

As a parent you check to see if a place is child friendly. The responsibility is yours. The restaurant clearly advertises the times children are welcome. What more do you want?

"A restaurant is quite at liberty to have a no children policy. But extending that to include even tiny newborn babies is almost the same as having a "no pregnant women" policy. The restaurant therefore discriminated against you illegally by ensuring that you as the mother of a newborn baby had less access to their services than someone who isn't the mother of a newborn baby."

I have a child that we can't leave with anyone else ( severely disabled). Does that mean that we could have claimed we were being discriminated against if we had showed up with him in tow, when he was younger.

I’m guessing this situation doesn’t happen a lot because if it did then they would mention it over the phone

Right. If it happens with any regularity, then the restaurant clearly SHOULD mention it to avoid losing business. If they didn't, then it's presumably not something that happens, or the person taking the call this time forgot.

I'm surprised people can find one inane line of information so "ridiculous" and laughable but oh well. Life must be more interesting that way I suppose!

YABVFU!

Also the first question I ask booking
Or planning anything is "is it child friendly? "

Because it would be assuming the caller had small children and was planning to bring them along. Most people eating in Michelin star, Belgravia restaurants don’t

Not necessarily. As I said earlier, someone booking a table for two could also be a parent and their child.

My view is that some restaurants think they are above people treating them as what they are, a place to eat and honestly stupidly think that everyone is going there for an experience

Well, very nice for you that you can just drop into a high-end restaurant on a whim. I expect a lot of diners - especially on a Saturday night so not business customers - do consider it a treat and a special - probably very expensive - experience.

If it's their policy then there's nothing you can do about it, complaining will get you nowhere.

Saying a baby isn't likely to wake up makes no difference to their policy, and plus babies have a tendancy to wake up at the very moment you don't want them too.

Find somewhere child friendly next time and move on.