To think that being in a high tax bracket doesn't mean you work 'harder'

[dietcokeandgalaxyplease]

I'm so so sick of reading about people who welcome the Tory's tax reduction for high earners because of course they 'work hard' and why should they be penalised.
AIBU to think that even though you work HARD you don't always earn a lot? I genuinely think that if you earn more you should contribute more.
I'm a nurse married to a paramedic. Neither of us are paying the higher tax rate.... obviously we need to work harder???? 😡

No, but they probably work smarter. I think you need to pick an area to study in where you know there is good pay and you need to ensure that there are progression routes available. If hard work reflected high pay then footballers wouldn't be millionaires and care workers wouldn't be struggling to make a living.

I think when people say ‘I work / worked hard’ they are often not comparing themselves to others who work...they are comparing themselves to a particular group of people whom their tax is paying for.

It is right that tax is used to support:
Those who might have some form of disability
Emergency situations e.g. redundancy
Services e.g. NHS
Etc

But, you cannot deny that the welfare system also spends a lot of money on people who:
Are more than able, but spend their days drinking or smoking weed
Claim to be separated and live separately, but who are actually together (I know a few of these)
Refuse to get a low paid job, because they’ll be ‘no better off’
Don’t like work
Work cash in hand and claims as well

A family member of mine has played the system her whole life. She knows what I think of her. She only worked a few days here and there. She felt entitled not to work, because she doesn’t like it. She had massive inheritance and blew it very quickly just to get rid of the money, as she wanted to plan to use social care in elderly adulthood and not pay herself. She then sold her inherited house and did the same. When universal credits came in, it became harder to manipulate the system, so she suddenly became disabled and unable to walk without a stick. It would be comical if it wasn’t such a irritation.

She enjoyed her life watching TV in bed with a pack of cigarettes and cake. Went to the pub in the evening, picking up takeout on the way home. She also uses food banks.

There are genuine people who deserve to be looked after by the tax payer. And services that need to be paid for.

Then there are too big of numbers of people who shouldn’t be benefiting from the welfare system and it’s not fair. That’s where I feel people are justified (even those in low paid jobs) to say I work hard for my money).

People might say a small number of people play the system. It’s not. The numbers are too high and cost us a lot of money.

By comparison my friends husband lost his job. They had a big mortgage and bills etc and a lovely home. They couldn’t get any help from the state because she was in part time work and earned above the threshold....yet is wasn’t enough for them to keep their house.

So when people say the work hard, they mean, why should I pay more tax to support ever growing numbers of benefits users, some who would be quite capable of getting off their arses or shaping up and getting a job to take the pressure off everyone else. (But would never begrudge paying for the genuine).

Of course, I’m expecting people to say ‘some people have mental health conditions and fell into drugs because the Tories pushed them there...bla bla bla’. I personally believe in making people more responsible to empower them, rather than giving them the excuses they need to do nothing.

@TabbyMumz profession was the wrong word. In his job. He's a train driver.

Being a train driver certainly isn’t a profession but it’s a fantastic job for someone with no GCSEs, I always think what a great job it is

It depends on what you mean by higher rate tax. My husband pays 40% on a percentage of his income but our rent now has skyrocketed because we have to private rent. We pay more than double in comparison to friends who are in council homes. We have reached the point where my friend who is on low income has more disposable income than us. I wonder why we bother because my DH job is ridiculously pressured, he had a breakdown not long ago but we are now caught because for us to move somewhere cheaper we need a decent amount of money and forget buying or saving for a mortgage. I guess it boils down to experience I only recently found out that one earner if £50k loses or pays tax on child benefit and yet if a total household earns £49k each they keep it, so they earn £99k and still get it because it’s two separate people. The whole system is screwed if you are ‘rich’ you continue to be so, if you are ‘poor’ you have to fight for help and if you are in the middle there’s nothing.

DBLM

The vast majority of benefit claimants are working people because their wages are too low. The unemployed make a much smaller percentage.

Thanks for your understanding @scubadive . I also pay almost £400pm in student loan repayments and pay all childcare bills etc on my own. Luckily I get the 30 free hours for my son which helps a lot.

@eeyore228 higher rate tax only means one thing doesn’t it? Someone paying the higher rate

DH is in the top tax bracket, he always says that he gets paid for what he knows, not what he does. Sometimes he does pretty much a part time week, other times he goes away for a fortnight at a time.

Passthecherrycoke he always says he finds it boring! Though he does it because he knows he would never get another job on that salary with no qualifications.

Good benefits too though. And it’s safe

Additionally some people say the reward for working hard IS the good job.

I loathe my job. I hate it. I can’t wait to be able to retire. I earn an excellent wage, but my job is too stressful and takes up all day every day. I’m expected to work when I’m not at work. I don’t enjoy it at all and do it just for the money. I work hard, like EVERYONE else who works. But just because I worked hard in school/ uni etc doesn’t mean I’m lucky enough to actually enjoy my job. So I’m working for me and my family’s benefit, to give us a nice life and a secure future. I’m not working in a job I hate, every hour under the sun, to pay for others who don’t want to work. (Read my previous post, I’m not talking about those who’s are genuine or services).

Apologies btw if my post wasn’t really relevant, as I’m not a HRTP! I was more referring to the idea of whether higher salaries mean harder work as in the OP. And i know in MN land a salary of £40k is generally viewed as woeful lol. But to me it’s a fantastic salary, given that I come from a background where it was assumed you’d stay on NMW your entire life, and living in an area where the average salary is £17k. Round here if you’re on £25k you’re doing very well.

Trewser

Dublin, although I think Switzerland was on the cards for a while.

And I fully support paying an adequate amount of tax to ensure properly funded public services. I’d happily see my tax increased if it meant better provision of NHS services, education, policing etc. I can’t fathom being so small minded and selfish as to feel that I shouldn’t contribute more the more I earn. Doesn’t irk me at all paying tax, and I’d happily vote for an increase tbh.

It will always depend on an individual really. Some people work v hard and others just don't no matter the career.

I do get fed up of the attitude that being a high earner means you have everything easy though, and why not pay more tax. My DH is an accountant typically working a 12-15 hour day, so he easily does a 70 hour week most weeks. He bloody earns his money. Some
Of his friends sometime take the P if he has a new car or a nice holiday but they are the ones at home for their tea at 5pm every night and working nearly half the hours he does.
In DH's previous role he was subject to losing his personal allowance due to the size of bonus. When he changed role to a higher paid basic but less bonus it took HMRC TWO YEARS to accept this and give him his personal allowance back and remove other tax implications that are associated with having worked in banking. The system is archaic.

@scubadive Also I don't qualify for child benefit but a 2 parent family with each parent earning £49k each will 

@Waxonwaxoff0

It’s not just the unemployed though is it:

There’s those who work a max of 16 hours and get top ups as they’re better off that way.

There’s those who claim to be disabled when they are not.

There are couples who claim separately and have two council homes but actually live together.

Etc etc

Now, if all those types didn’t receive benefits, would there still be as much of a need to raise taxes for people who do work extremely hard (not arguing that low paid workers don’t work hard).

We teach our kids to work hard, and that ‘the only place where success comes before work is the dictionary’. One of life’s later lessons is that statement is complete bullshit.

Higher pay often comes with more responsibility, you can have more responsibility without having to work harder.

There are people who work the system which I agree isn’t good.

I'm trying to encourage ds's to think about careers that they will enjoy, have longevity, but will be paid well!

Have you seen “breaking into the elite” on iPlayer? Really interesting. People who prodomently affected were children of African/ Asian immigrants who were taught education and hard work is everything, and if you have the benefit of a good education you will do well. Then they bring up children in the U.K., where that’s just not true, and struggle

@passthecherrycoke

That sounds like an interesting watch.

Totally agree OP.

But it won’t be HR taxpayers who get the Tories in. It’ll be working class people who just read enough to understand the siren call of ‘less tax’. They cannot and do not want to own the fact that while under the Tories they get to pay less tax, it has a negligible , even negative effect on them.

The rich don’t wait on MHS queues, or wait 6 weeks to see a doctor, or wait 4 hours with their nan who’s fallen and broken her neck of femur and is in horrendous pain. Or has to take time off because the primary school has to close one afternoon a week because it hasn’t got enough funds to be full time. Or lives in Luton, and endures huge crime issues, sometimes with only 5 cops on shift to cover the whole area.

No, those people will listen to you, and afterwards say ‘yeah, but lower taxes’ they don’t realise that tenner in their pocket means another £10k from a HR tax payer not going to fund the country.

They really are turkeys voting for Christmas