To stop accepting everyday sexism and never use Asda again

[Canadalife]

We had an Asda order delivered this evening. One item was incorrect (much more expensive item delivered instead of what we ordered....duck instead of chicken!). Being (stupidly) honest I raised it with the driver. He explained that the orders must have been muddled, Fair enough! He searched through the orders. No luck finding the chicken. I said ‘we need something to roast on Sunday’.

He kept calling me “love” throughout the conversation. When I said “please don’t call me love” he accused me of abusing him on the doorstep. I spoke firmly but was in no way confrontational or aggressive, didn’t shout, swear et cetera. Notably he didn’t call either my daughter or husband anything, but did refer to me consistently as love. I felt seriously patronised and belittled.

My husband said “no one is abusing you, she just asked you not to patronise her by calling her love”. The driver repeated that he would not be abused and drove off.

We certainly did not swear, shout or get angry. I am very upset and hate confrontation. I put up with lots of everyday sexism as we all do. I am totally fed up. AIBU to never shop at Asda again.

I respect women's choices to speak up if they find language demeaning or patronising. Even if it's not an attitude I share myself towards a particular term, I believe women have the right to be addressed in the way they prefer and this preference should be respected. (And this absolutely is a sexism issue as it's a symptom of a wider issue about women's attitudes to how men treat them being dismissed, minimised, ignored and belittled, being illustrated depressingly, in this thread)

A man calls woman a term she finds demeaning. The man refuses. Woman is annoyed. Woman expresses annoyance. Woman is told she is a (and these are all on this thread) stuck up, fucking pathetic, snobby, snowflake, unhinged bitch who needs to get a life.

The irony. Do we think this should be acceptable? Because I fucking don't.

And to be told that she needs to get a grip as she could be being called sugar tits or having her arse groped Is there a level of acceptable sexism?

I think women should get to set their own fucking bars and this should be respected.

I have been called love by people who genuinely use it to be kind and friendly as part of their everyday speech. I have also been called love by men who want to patronise me. I can tell the difference and I'm sure OP can too. The fact that the driver reacted badly shows imo that he knows he was in the wrong and was angry that he was rumbled.

Do people here genuinely believe that woman don't get to ask people to respect what they themselves find offensive, just because some other people don't find it offensive? Women don't get to make their own choices and just have to go along with what other people think?

So Mary and Jane work in an office where a colleague slaps their arses when they walk past his desk. Mary doesn't mind as he is just being matey and his intentions aren't bad, it's the culture of the workplace and the area where they live. So Jane who doesn't like it should stop being such a stuck up professionally offended bitch?

Or does Jane get to expect her desired boundaries to be respected? And don't tell me there is a difference between being called a name and being touched, because it doesn't fucking matter what you think - it matters what Jane thinks and what she wants and doesn't want! And don't tell me it's just societal norms because twenty years ago this thread would have been about someone having their arse touched and being told to get over it as it happens everywhere.

Language matters. Womens choices should be respected and it would be fantastic if more women supported this and each other instead of defending the attitude of men.

Last summer at a local market a man was selling beer, getting samples out for people to try. My brother in law and my dad tried a few. I was about to do the same when the guy said" actually I would suggest this on for ladies". I replied coldly that I was no lady and walked off. So I do get the concept of everyday sexism and patronising little ladies.
But what the OP is describing is different. The man was being helpful and polite. Love is not an insult. Moaning about having nothing to roast on Sunday, which was by no means the driver's fault, makes it sound like you were annoyed, understandably m and took it out on him, not so understandably.

@spanglydangly

no erudite argument, just the words I've reposted.

If you RTFT I’ve posted my opinion, and pretty erudite it was too. The shower of shite that this thread is continues so I can only seduce that people who don’t get this are thick 🤷‍♀️

Having a dig at the driver over a packing error is akin to those people who stress at platform staff over a late train

He should have stopped calling you love when you asked though

I can't believe you asked him to stop. Incredibly precious.

Exactly, smemorata. It's more that the driver felt entitled and instead of apologising to her, he doubled down and accused her of abusing him, out of defiance. Because she dared say she didn't like it.

Even take out the word love for a moment. She didn't feel comfortable being called love. She said so to him, and he took offence at her not wanting to be called that. It was his reaction that says everything, not so much the initial offence.

One of our (Australian) former Prime Ministers said " Let me say this to you: disrespecting women does not always result in violence against women. But all violence against women begins with disrespecting women "

Language builds and shapes culture. When we say a woman does not have the right to say she is uncomfortable being called something, we are silencing women and fostering disrespect towards women. When we say a woman should stay 'silent' after being abused, because the 'poor man might get the sack one month before Christmas', we are saying that the woman should shoulder the responsibility not just for her actions and feelings, but the man's actions and feelings too, for his benefit, at the expense of hers. It is akin to a child or woman not wanting report a teacher, priest, doctor or whoever for child sexual abuse/rape etc. The victim is told the will be responsible teacher/priest/doctor etc losing their job. So the victim stays silent, because they don't want to get the perpetrator in trouble. It is the same thing. This is 2019. When are we going to stop asking women to take one for the male team and suffer so they don't lose their job or position? When are we going to stop asking women to just accept being called (or touched) terms that make them uncomfortable, to placate a man and his job? When are we going to stop asking the woman to take responsibility for the actions of a man, and just wear it?

Language shapes cultures. If you change the language, you can help change the culture of disrespect. Allowing men to call women what they want, and telling them to stay silent in case the man 'loses his job one month before Christmas (as if he had no options along the way to control himself and not act defiant and not apologise)', we are fostering a culture of disrespect. This disrespect is at the core of sexism, and leads to misogyny, abuse, and domestic violence.

disrespecting women does not always result in violence against women. But all violence against women begins with disrespecting women Lets stop enabling a culture of disrespect.

I call everyone ‘love’.
My partner, my child, other people.
Not belittling anyone.
You sound as if you were the rude one trying to excuse it as ‘firm’.
Yabu

According to this thread then if all the men in my office start calling the women love (80 men 6 women) I should take it in good grace even though

It's not commonly used in this area
When you hear it, it's always man to woman
When you hear it, it's usually passive aggressive

I'm really surprised by this thread tbh, a decade ago the answers would have been v different! Surprised at the anger towards the op for telling him she didn't like it as well.

I’d be mortified by the fact my husband decided I wasn’t capable of having a conversation with someone by myself and needed to intervene.

I wouldn’t be bothered by being called love but I do think if asked to stop saying something someone should respect that and do so. I’m guessing the driver said it without thinking and you overreacted and came across in an aggressive manner, especially with your husband embarrassingly joining in. Asda probably will ban you as they understandably have a zero tolerance to this sort of behaviour to their employees.

I'm with you, OP. In the context of daft substitutions, the driver was shutting you down. You asked nicely, he carried on. That's rude.

And it's not the same as "mate": Mate = equal; Love - patronising. Yes, there are those who use it with no agenda, but I know exactly what the OP means, and we know how it's used to suggest that you shouldn't be complaining about anything, and to shut up and know your place.

He was delivering your groceries - I am always amazed at how great this service is.

I cringe at how awful this exchange must have been.

He shouldn't have to apologise for saying it the first time.

He shouldn't have kept saying it to wind her up.

I wouldn't have asked him to not say it though because I just don't get wound up about things like that.

If he'd have said "I can't find the chicken Sugar Tits" then I would have been fuming.

Based on your username, are you Canadian?

Love is perfectly normal dialect in the UK (but not in the male= Sir, female=love thread) It's not an expression I use but it's not patronizing to call other people that. When he called you love after you said not to, is it possible that this was a mistake as it's not natural for him to not use the perfectly acceptable word?

Technically you could have roasted the duck (I bet they would have given it to you free as it's their mistake)

I've noticed a trend amongst women at work of calling other women 'babe' and 'hun' - I'd rather have 'love' than either of those, particularly 'babe'. I hate, hate, hate 'babe' no matter who is saying it, or in what context.

@Chloe84 you go ahead and seduce that everyone that didn't agree with you is thick! An awful lot of people you're seducing are thick on this thread then?

Some of you sound like very unhappy and unhinged people.

I call everyone love. Men, women, kids. I'm a feminist. Bullshit like this is why some people think feminists are nit picking lunatics.

@bigflowerdog as a feminist then, if a woman asked you to stop referring to her in a term she wasn't comfortable with, you would stop?

I think some of you need to look up how these names have undermined women for years and are not equal peer to peer greetings but ultimately show a lack of respect and whether or not you personally feel offended doesn't take away from the meaning of the words.

Unhinged I agree. Especially this beauty
It is akin to a child or woman not wanting report a teacher, priest, doctor or whoever for child sexual abuse/rape etc. The victim is told the will be responsible teacher/priest/doctor etc losing their job. So the victim stays silent, because they don't want to get the perpetrator in trouble. It is the same thing.

So, being addressed as “love” when a woman in a friendly manner is the same thing as being raped as a child...

Nice. Now a grocery delivery man is akin to a child rapist because he was being friendly in a manner in which the OP disapproves as too familiar and too informal.

@Ilovethekitties

I can't speak for @bigflowerdog but I personally don't associate with, or have anything to do with women who are so petty and whiny, that they get irrationally angry if someone casually calls them 'love' or some other pet name.

It really is ridiculous to get upset about it. I would literally have no time for people like this ...

@PlanDeRaccordement

OMG, that post you quoted is absolutely foul.