Jeremy Corbyn - PM by default?

[Considermesometimes]

I am not a 'woke' labour supporter. I come from a long line of many generations of stout labour supporters. It would be unthinkable up to now in my family for anyone to vote for any other party. I would be shown the door at my gp's house for even having this conversation.

However, I am seriously seriously worried, I would go as far as to say terrified of the prospect of voting for Labour this time, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becoming Prime Minister.
I am interested to know how others are dealing with this problem.

I am worried that some of the policies such as seizing assets and homes from people, massive taxes etc. We are home owners and work very hard, it could all be jeopardised.

Forced closure of private schools in this area would be a complete and utter disaster. As it is we have to finish early on Friday afternoons, and do not have funds for every day stationary much less hundreds of extra children. What would happen to our already very full classes of 33-38 with all the extra children from the private schools? How is this even possible? And yet it seems Labour are fully committed to it when pressed on the issue.

The huge privatisation plan of utilities looks to cost around 200 billion pounds. I don't want our money spent this way! I would much prefer better schools and hospitals, and crime to be under control in this part of the country. I can't even get a GP app for my asthmatic dd at the moment. I could not care less about the Utilities or the railways etc. The LP just do not seem to understand at the moment what matters to most people.

The whole defence and nuclear issue. I don't feel we live in a particularly safe world. I like the fact we have some defences against the nut jobs in the Middle East or North Korea. The fact that other countries would not trust the UK under Corbyn to share intelligence with us, and his lack of decision making in a crisis, or even his basic understanding of deterrents is deeply disturbing.

I just don't think Corbyn is up to the job in any shape or form. Nor do most of the party.

I have thought about voting Lib Dems, but looking at the numbers that will almost certainly result in Corbyn being PM. There is almost no chance at all of Lib Dems getting 326 seats. A vote for Lib Dems is a vote for a Labour government probably propped up by the SNP who will demand another independence referendum in six months.

I am livid with the party for allowing this to happen, how is Corbyn still the leader of the party it is beyond me. How has this been allowed to happen? Chuka Umunna would have made an excellent PM, but all the best candidates are leaving the Labour party.

I don't think I can vote for anyone. That is my final conclusion, for the first time in thirty years I will not vote. What are you planning to do?

and a less competent PM is beyond imagination.

All that reveals is a stunning lack of imagination. Jeremy "Two Es" Corbyn would plumb depths of shitness undreamt of by human minds!

@Considermesometimes despite my original sarky reply, I do understand your position. Logically I guess you could vote BP in order to ensure the Tories don't win, but to be honest I don't think I could ever bring myself to do that under any circumstances.

“He can decide on whether to press the nuclear codes, take us to war...” utter nonsense not how it works AT ALL.

“The smear campaign against him has been continuous and effective. The richest people in the world are terrified of Corbyn, as they should be. 80% of the UK press is right-wing. He’s up against it.” Absolutely

“The only people voting Tory should be the super rich with no worries about paying bills if life goes tits up. That’s who the Tories will serve while saying a big “fuck you” to the rest of you” and this was ALWAYS the case, I’m most stunned by those “shocked” that the tories have reduced benefits, denied people housing, increased poverty... they have ALWAYS been the party of the independently wealthy who have nothing to fear if their life in other ways (illness, disability, bereavement) goes tits up! They DO NOT CARE about anyone lower than upper mc and they barely tolerate them!

“Yep, the bastards have only pledged record levels of NHS funding, 40 new hospitals and money for new scanners and equipment. The fuckers” again WORDS ARE CHEAP they’ve been in power for 10 years and CUT massively nhs services and resources, the funding etc that they’re promising IF they did it would be minimal step towards reversing the damage THEY have done.

It’s like Matt Hancock trying desperately (and failing) to make out they’re “increasing” police numbers when their “pledge” to “increase” numbers doesn’t even equal the number they cut!

“It is absolutely high time people paid more tax, businesses are forced to pay a living wage and we take care of the vulnerable, sick and disabled.” Hear hear!

And actually NOT just because it’s the morally right thing to do but because it would benefit the country as a whole!

More taxes = services properly funded and run

Living wage = people SPENDING more which would definitely boost the economy, many economists have been saying this for YEARS! Generally speaking rich people hoard their wealth, mc and below tend to when they have more spend it.

Taking care of the vulnerable, sick and disabled = long term costs of care being cheaper, those who if properly supported could work/work more hours would boost the economy. This govt has for years banged on about getting certain sectors of these groups back into work/working more hours WITHOUT doing ANYTHING to:

Create jobs
Support people returning to work after a long period of being unable to (indeed they have removed the vast majority of grants and funds which helped with things like clothes for work, transport and other costs in first month before they get first payday. They’ve removed many employees rights so people who are sick/disabled are largely unprotected from disciplinaries/being sacked for taking time off for health reasons, from being granted requests for flexibility/adjustments...)

I’m disabled and mentally ill and haven’t worked in 9 years. I never thought I’d have to say that. I have a decent cv aside from the gap, good references and had worked since the age of 13 aside from mat leave to that point.

If I’d received the right treatment, properly co-ordinated and delivered I’d likely be working now.

If employers in this country were more open to and understanding of employees who need to work at/from home, and embraced the technology that can enable this I’d likely be working now.

Actually if employers in this country were held to better standards in terms of supporting sick/disabled employees, in terms of not bullying employees I’d likely be working now.

I’d be paying income tax and NI, I’d not need to be relying on benefits, living on the edge of my nerves because I’m awaiting a decision on change from DLA to pip, checking my bank every day to see if money has gone in as expected, to ensure bills are being paid ok, trying to find the strength to move on my formal complaint re the fact I’ve had NO support from mh services since April and never even had an explanation as to why the service was removed at a time when I was extremely ill and DID need those services. I’d hopefully be needing minimal if any input on mh side from nhs, and I’d be mitigating to a greater degree the costs of my support for physical disability and might even be able to save towards a pension.

NOT supporting me, NOT giving me the care and treatment I need I believe is likely costing the country more than if I was given that support.

“so why are all these policies about privatising utilities etc” I think you mean nationalising - so short sighted! The privatising of utilities was a disaster for the country! It was sold as it would increase competition, improve quality of service, and raise income for the country - the very opposite has happened. Many utilities companies are actually owned by non Uk companies (whatever the companies name may imply, when you look properly at the parent companies the profits AND of course taxes are going outside the uk), the quality of service has gone seriously downhill particularly with water companies where leaks and contamination have been major issues, the costs have sky rocketed, the big 6 energy companies pretty much rule the roost and there’s very little difference in price for customers across the industry.

The same has been true for rail travel, I am from a military family and we lived all over Uk and growing up and in my 20’s travelled extensively by rail. It wasn’t perfect but it WAS A damn sight better run and cheaper (even accounting for inflation) than it is now. Fares are astronomical, services are appalling (frequent lack of service on many lines with ‘replacement bus services’ situations, delays, cancellations, overcrowding, poor quality rolling stock that’s poorly maintained...) there’s no cohesion with all the different companies which can cause great difficulty for customers (more changes mid journey - you used to be able to quite easily cross the country in several directions with few changes, if the train for one part of your journey is delayed/cancelled impacting the rest of your journey it can mean customers incurring massive costs in replacement tickets)

Re-nationalising utilities in particular means people have cheaper bills (no shareholders to appease, prices need only be cost+ a little for maintenance and future investment) which again means the mc and lower have more available to spend elsewhere which would boost the economy.

Cheaper rail fares would likely lead to more rail travel, less air travel within Uk, more commuters travelling by rail (which was far more common when I was younger because it was cheaper than driving + parking and less stress too than driving, trying to find parking in busy towns and cities, there was also a lot more drive+rail commuters who’d eg drive to stations just outside London then rail into London to work), which would be better for environment, and again put more money in pockets of people mc and below, would revitalise the Uk tourist industry to a degree and possibly if done well make the Uk less London-centric in many ways.

These changes would also mean more jobs in the uk.

You say you can’t stomach voting labour because of how detrimental that would be to you op, you’re basing that on your circumstances NOW which to be fair are quite positive, but life can turn on a sixpence! Without warning you could face job loss, divorce, sickness, disability or bereavement and this Tory govt wouldn’t give a shit about you then, nor would Lib dems

Same here, OP, labour is my natural home but I cannot vote for labour under JC. Therefore, regrettably and with a heavy heart I may vote Tory. I am of African origin. I grew up in my country of origin. When I was in secondary school so many moons ago, the country was taken over by a military dictator who unleashed a socialist agenda upon us - his policies were similar to JCs - take from the rich and private businesses and share, smash up the education system and create a level playing field. Oh how we suffered. The family’s businesses were seized and given to the state to run, our houses and personal belongings were seized. We (the whole country) starved. Most of us became emaciated to the point where we were counting and rating the bones around our necks and nicknaming them pearls and necklaces. It was horrific. The businesses which were confiscated were run to the ground and the employees who rose up against us and encouraged the takeover of our businesses eventually lost their jobs and their livelihoods. The properties were not maintained so they fell apart. By the time they were returned to the family they had become rotten shells. Education standards fell to the extent that the leader of the revolution and his cronies sent their children to Western countries to be educated. But for a reversal of policy and moving to democracy and a capitalist sort of system the country would have been completely annihilated. Furthermore, I used to work for a Jewish company and the family took me into their fold. I no longer work for them as I changed profession but they are still my family. The chairman of the company was born and brought up in Germany and the harrowing stories he told me about how they managed to escape from hitler’s clutches will stay with me forever. I stand in solidarity with them and all my Jewish friends against anti-semitism.

I really object to being called a bloody tory!!

I'm delighted to be called a Tory - bloody or otherwise.

I'm amused by the insistence that the Tories will privatise the NHS when it was war criminal Blair who allowed private healthcare providers into the NHS and promised them the chance to gain a stronger foothold (he estimated up to 40%).

Also that you must be rich to vote Tory - I'm retired, have a tiny private pension in addition to my OAP and Attendance Allowance as I am physically disabled. I don't appear to fit in with your fantasy of a Tory voter and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

Some of the posts on here are infuriating.

Firstly, for anyone who still doesn't understand Labour's stance on Brexit, it's very simple: they are hoping to get a new deal with the EU within 3 months, and then hold a second referendum with the deal as one option, or remain as another.

Secondly, I agree that more needs to be done to address the anti-Semite issues - not only in Labour but across all parties. And actually this needs to be focusing not just on Jewish people, but all people. Lest we forget some of the language our current PM has used to describe people.

We need to remember that we're voting for a party - not a person. This isn't a popularity contest. Please remember that since voting for David Cameron, we've had a further 2 PMs who we did not vote for. There is no guarantee that JC will lead the Labour party for the full term if they get into power.

I urge everyone to really read and scrutinise exactly what each party stands for. There are a lot of things that have happened not only in the past 10 years, but even in the past couple of weeks that would make me think twice about voting Tory. These are all based on facts.

Make your choice based on who aligns to your ideals the most - and remember that it's hugely unlikely that any party will be perfect for anyone.

Shills arguing with shills

@Graphista well said

SilverySurfer

So basically you're a turkey voting for Christmas

So basically you're a turkey voting for Christmas

Your mastery of the art of political persuasion truly knows no limits...

CendrillonSings do tell me what the Tories do for disabled people on benefits that no other party will do, I'm all ears.

It’s like when you give young children “social stories” to try to model for them how you want them to behave.

So your toddler won’t pee in the potty? Get them a book called “jack goes potty” and hope they’ll copy Jack’s behaviour.

And your northern long standing labour voters won’t switch to conservative? Pay offices full of shills to start threads on message boards detailing how, as a lifelong labour voter, they have decided to vote conservative.

Mumsnet should ban threads like these. Or at least provide mandatory fact checking.

I do honestly think you have to be a sociopath to vote Tory, and proudly admit you do.

The pain and suffering, preventable deaths they have caused with their horrific policies is unforgivable. But as long as you’re alright who gives a shit about anyone else? Gross.

I do honestly think you have to be a sociopath to vote Tory, and proudly admit you do.

Yes, I’m sure many Tories will change their voting habits based on this kind of unhinged abuse...

“ Yes, I’m sure many Tories will change their voting habits based on this kind of unhinged abuse...”

Why not? They seem to think the same tactics will make Labour supporters change theirs....

Unhinged abuse oh do give over.

Can you honestly say that you give the slightest shits about anyone that the Tories directly affect? Of course not, or you wouldn’t vote for them. If you want to vote right at least have the guts to admit you’re a selfish human. That’s not abuse btw, that’s pointing out the obvious.

Mistle please, please wise up! It won't just be coffee shops and Amazon that leave the UK. It will be the huge multi nationals that keep our country afloat, banks, finance, insurance, pharmaceuticals. If they up and leave we are completely stuffed.

They are talking about leaving because of Brexit not a labour government don't be ridiculous.

It amazes me how selfish people are. Only thinking about how they will be affected. It's very depressing

Why not? They seem to think the same tactics will make Labour supporters change theirs....

Well, it’s true that facts and reason don’t really work on Labour supporters, who think of antisemitism in their party the same way Donald Trumps thinks of global warming...

If you want to vote right at least have the guts to admit you’re a selfish human.

And the ones who vote Labour so that those who have earned their money can have it taxed off them and given away to said voters who haven’t earned it - aren’t they selfish?

MaMaMaMySharona
SilverySurfer
So basically you're a turkey voting for Christmas confused

I bow down before your unique mastery of political debate. Sniggers.

CendrillonSings happily ignoring the fact our current government actively support terrorism and violence by selling arms to Saudi? Those in glass houses!

And the ones who vote Labour so that those who have earned their money can have it taxed off them and given away to said voters who haven’t earned it

If you've read the thread, you'll know this has already been covered. Labour are only proposing a raise in taxes for those who earn over £85k/ year. And even then it's pretty minimal.

Are you therefore stating that those who earn less than £85k don't work hard enough? Do you understand how taxes work?