to think it's not that difficult to understand Labour's position on Brexit

[chomalungma]

Apparently many people don't understand Labour's position. It's not that difficult to understand.

1. Renegotiate a better deal with the EU.
2. Put that deal to the people in a people's vote within 6 months
3. Enact the referendum
4. That's it

And yes,when it comes to the vote, people within Labour may have different views - some may want to remain, others to take the deal.

This is not about whether you agree with the position - that's a whole different thread - this is about whether the position is difficult to understand or not

Do you understand this policy?

^What is means in simple terms is We Will Sit On That Fence Until Our Arse Cannot Take It Anymore.

Exactly! But Labour and their activists think we’re too stupid to see through their painfully cowardly and transparent strategy!

One of my friends posted this on Facebook the other day and someone replied “oh, so it’s his way or no way then?”

Err.... no? It’s literally the opposite of that. And the only party leader who is saying the opposite of that.

People are bewildering.

What is means in simple terms is We Will Sit On That Fence Until Our Arse Cannot Take It Anymore.

Yeah the bloody nerve eh, thinking people should be able to vote when they know the actual details of what they’re voting for.

The media and the tories have done a phenomenal job of putting Labour in a no win position, even while the tories are the most shambolic embarrassment of a party I’ve ever seen.

We actively NEED a Tory govt for the next four years to work through the issues created by leaving. They will have to take ownership of any problems which will make them more likely to try and fix them, rather than just throwing up their hands and blaming the Tory leave strategy (as labour will do).

Hahahaha. Are you for real? The Tories were whinging on about the mess Labour had left them with for years and years after 2010. Right up until and during the 2015 election campaign. In fact, I heard one (can't remember who, mentioning it AGAIN earlier THIS YEAR when asked if they regretted austerity and the damage it has caused.

The media and the tories have done a phenomenal job of putting Labour in a no win position

I think it’s actually Labour who put themselves in a no-win situation, by being both epically cowardly and epically shit! No big boy made them do it!

I think it’s actually Labour who put themselves in a no-win situation, by being both epically cowardly and epically shit! grin No big boy made them do it!

Thanks for proving my point.

Their stance on Brexit is not cowardly in the least. It’s responsible.

We actively NEED a Tory govt for the next four years to work through the issues created by leaving.

In fact, a Tory government is the very last thing we need if we do leave, given their attitude towards workers rights, the NHS, austerity, human rights, disabled people etc etc.

If we do end up leaving the EU, the last thing that anyone but the very wealthiest should want is a no deal Tory Brexit.

Their stance on Brexit is not cowardly in the least.

It’s cowardly because they want to Remain, but don’t want all their Leave voters to abandon them. So they concoct the idea of a new deal (“Look, we’re Leaving, really, vote for us”) that they will then campaign against in a Referendum (“Look, we’re Remaining, really, vote for us”).

It’s cynical, cowardly, and stupid - it’s Labour. And a lot of Leavers and Remainers can see right through it!

if these political threads on mumsnet are anything to go by then compared with other years when I have felt like the only mumsnet Tory, we might do quite well this time. Do vote. Don't assume it's in the bag.

Labour's policy is very clear.

-They will dither on for a few extra months
-They will get this amazing new deal (how exactly remains to be seen)
-They will campaign against their own deal

So very clear, just bollocks. What people can't understand is what sort of idiots could be capable of coming up with such rubbish.

So very clear, just bollocks.

Indeed!

Yeah the bloody nerve eh, thinking people should be able to vote when they know the actual details of what they’re voting for.

Then they ought to say clearly that they want a new referendum, People’s vote, not waffling about.

Want a second referendum, but I dint see a clear will for that in Labour, I only see waffle.

Crops, Tom Watson isn't standing.
What does he know we don't?

No the policy is not difficult to understand at all, I'm not even sure why people are saying it's recent, labour have been consistent with their plan for quite some time. While I'll be voting labour and desperately want them to win, if they don't I will console myself with the fact that the next conservative government will be the last for quite some time.

Mummmy, he knows he's in a Leave seat. He knows there have been rumours about his private life (which would probably be shrugged off given Johnson's record), we know he is at odds with his leader.
Not sure any of that is secret.

Oh yes and he backed that person who got done for making false allegations.

Ok. Thanks. Not read it all yet, just thought odd time to leave the ship.

Labours policy:

If talking to a remain Labour voter - we will have a second referendum and we are pretty confident that even if its by a tiny margin remain will win. So we will remain.

If talking to a leave Labour voter - we are on your side. We voted to trigger Article 50. we are so keen to leave we will re-negotiate a deal. And dont worry about that vote we keep going on about. Our deal will be so fantastic everyone will vote for it.

the mistake they are making is trying to combine these two diametrically opposed view into one policy.

Comrade Corbachev hates europe. The elitist Momentum secret seven club love europe and Labour supporters are split.

I completely understand Labours brexit position. "We are all things to all men" (just so long as you arent Jewish, live in a city, dont earn above the minimum wage and you want a return to the 70's )

If talking to a leave Labour voter - we are on your side. We voted to trigger Article 50. we are so keen to leave we will re-negotiate a deal. And dont worry about that vote we keep going on about. Our deal will be so fantastic everyone will vote for it

An interesting interpretation.

Or maybe, talking to a Leave voter. We don't think the Leave deal that has been negotiated is good enough. It doesn't protect workers rights and will have a massive impact on living standards. We will negotiate a better deal that will protect worker's rights.

We will then have a public vote on that. So Remain might still happen. If Leave gets through, then at least it will be a better leave than the Tories have.

If you want to leave with the Tories deal, vote for them. Just be aware of the impact of that deal as well as all the other stuff that comes with the Tories.

If Leave gets through, then at least it will be a better leave than the Tories have.

Well, that’s the million dollar question, ism’t it? For many Leave voters a permanent customs union where we are tied into EU trade rules (and potentially free movement of people) is a far worse ‘Leave’. The only group who would be ‘happy’ with this type of Brexit would be remainders.

So, I’ll ask the question of Leave voters, is Labour’s proposed ‘deal’ better than Boris’?

"If Leave gets through, then at least it will be a better leave than the Tories have."
Define "better"

So, I’ll ask the question of Leave voters, is Labour’s proposed ‘deal’ better than Boris’

That would be a good AIBU.

You should start it. I expect the outcome will be:

1. Boris's deal is great
2. We prefer Corbyn's version - closer economic ties, good benefits
3. We don't want either, we want No Deal and a simple FTA afterwards - so we vote Brexit.

Who knows how the percentages will be split between Leave - probably 33 1/3% each

But start the AIBU and see....

You might also get " I don't trust Corbyn marginally more than I don't trust Johnson and I am sick of this shit".

That would be a good AIBU.

Theoretically, it would be. However, I have been on MN long enough to know how it would go.

It would be like those threads titled “I’d like to ask tory voters.......” that end up with hundreds of replies from people who start with “I’d never vote tory and no one I know would.......”

The results will come on the 13th of December from those Labour constiturncies that voted 70% in favour of Leave.

Actually, it’s like the current Jeremy Corbyn thread - it asks if people will vote Labour despite disliking Jeremy Corbyn and is full of comments that start “Well I like Jeremy Corbyn.” It’s sort of not the answer to the question, but never mind.