to think it's not that difficult to understand Labour's position on Brexit

[chomalungma]

Apparently many people don't understand Labour's position. It's not that difficult to understand.

1. Renegotiate a better deal with the EU.
2. Put that deal to the people in a people's vote within 6 months
3. Enact the referendum
4. That's it

And yes,when it comes to the vote, people within Labour may have different views - some may want to remain, others to take the deal.

This is not about whether you agree with the position - that's a whole different thread - this is about whether the position is difficult to understand or not

Do you understand this policy?

It’s a fudge. It’s not clear to lots of people. If Brexit has taught us anything it’s that simple messages, unencumbered by subtlety or caveats, win. Let’s send 45 million to the NHS Was clearly untrue but it was a simple, clear, message. In comparison, Labour’s current policy looks like a game of Mousetrap. its not that people don’t understand it - it’s that they can’t be arsed reading reading it - there are too many ifs and bits in it. It’s not straight, it’s not decisive, it’s not unequivocal.

Revoke Article 50 is.

It’s that easy.

I think it’s more that people have difficulty believing that it will happen. It’s very difficult to reconcile the policy with anything Jeremy Corbyn has said or done over the years. It seems unlikely that he’d want to have a people’s vote or to accept a result that he doesn’t want. It seems more likely that he’ll do a massive u turn once he become prime minister and ignore brexit altogether (hoping that article 50 will just automatically put us so that he can go full throttle with his nationalisation plans without having to pay fair compensation). His party will probably be left to attempt to get a brexit deal with an uncooperative government which is not a cheering prospect.

Clavinova are you suggesting that the tories' economic policy has NOT been crap over the past ten years??

It can't be that bad - the UK's net contribution to the EU budget has recently gone up by £2bn - if we were doing badly our contribution would have gone down.

While I understand the premise of the policy as it is written what I don't understand is how they think it is achievable. 1) They want to renegotiate the deal that the EU have said the won't renegotiate. 2) They want to take the position of "give us what we want now or we'll give you what you want (aka Remain).

If they are going to go back to the people it should be Deal, Leave, Stay. That will at least give us a fighting chance.

I don’t think Labour have been vague about their plan at all. The MSM have spent most of their time attacking Corbyn so people never got to hear what the actual plan was.

Also we’re living in a time when many peoples attention span doesn’t last beyond a headline so any explanation longer than a basic sentence will cause problems. That’s why people fall for crap statement such as ‘Brexit means Brexit’ or ‘Get Brexit Done’ which are both meaningless.

It's simple, people are being pedantic because they want to be.

Juncker yesterday said a deal could be negotiated next year, but the detail would be up to the new President/ Commission.

Labour's negotiating team have maintained an ongoing positive relationship with the Commission. This is why a new deal (one that protects the rights of workers and maintains environmental standards) is possible, Labour haven't been playing games and making the EU out to be the bad guys.

Which side should the government be on? Neither. It's their job to negotiate the best deal possible (not the worst deal so they know it will be voted down), to arrange a referendum based on far more information than we had last time, and to implement the result.

Yep, I don't know how the Tories have got away with repeatedly saying people don't understand the labour position when it's pretty simple.

Do I think it's a policy that will win them the election? Definitely not.

Deal, Leave, Stay.

That's exactly what it will be.

And a new deal can be negotiated. They even let Johnson do that, when most would have told him to take a running jump.

I understand it, yes.

Less Shit Deal vs Remain - let the people decide

(I agree that what the Conservatives did with the Keir Starmer footage is shameful.)

Labour's Emily Thornberry explains everything on Question Time;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49605019/thornberry-on-brexit-i-d-negotiate-a-deal-but-campaign-against-it

I rarely post on political subjects but yesterday we had the local labour mp knock and drop a pamphlet. He has a good reputation and as current mp is quite possible stands a chance to win. But he has quite clearly said that he is 'remain'. The message that has come so far seems to be that. Also why would EU renegotiate as they are clear this is the best possible deal they can offer? I am going to re read the thread again as I am doing my research about labour policies. Thanks op.

Why has it taken so long for labour to come to this position

Over three fucking years - utterly wasted time when the country needed a strong opposition more than ever

It’s not clear because they haven’t been clear for so long are they going to change it once again - probably

The EU are saying it's the best deal they can offer in relation to the priorities and red lines presented so far. That doesn't mean it's the best possible deal ever.

Keir Starmer - Susanna Reid does have a point though;

"How can it be a really good deal if you're going to vote against it?"

www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/05/tories-unrepentant-about-doctored-video-of-keir-starmer-tv-appearance

I don’t think it’s at all clear what sort of “better deal” they actually want. Is it single market membership, customs union or just a commitment to protect workers’ rights?

And I don’t trust them on the referendum.

It is easy to understand . I think it was ridiculous to have the referendum in the first place but given the closeness of the result this is the best approach I have seen. Some parties would like to completely ignore the result (lib dems). Some would like a hard Brexit which a high proportion of the population are very worried about. The labour party position seems the best to me. I am tired of interviewers demanding that everyone pick a clear side, it is just causing opinion to polarise and making the issue unsolvable.

It's really simple. The majority of people claiming that it isn't are either deliberately confusing things or are simple themselves.

What side of any referendum do they want to be on?
That will depend just what they can negotiate with the EU. Corbyn himself is not a remainer (unlike the leaders of all the other main parties) but is most likely to back remain and is on record as saying so.

I don't understand it because they have spent the last three years being wilfully vague.
They haven't been in power and the government have at no time involved parliament in Brexit negotiations, just in votes on what the Tories have negotiated. What good would having a position do in these circumstances?

Do we really want half the population to resent the outcome?

Understanding it is one thing, but it's an awful way to try and convince people to go with you. You need an actual hill to stand and die on, not a selection of maps, a broken compass and ill fitting walking boots.

I don't understand the policy, because the OP doesn't mention how all this would happen without involving our beloved parliament.

@Paintedmaypole half the population will resent the outcome whatever happens. From the absolute absence of protest about delaying brexit dates, I suspect leavers would just shrug if the whole thing got cancelled and go back to grumbling into their pints...

I want to vote for a party where the leader wants what's best for the country, which I believe is remaining part of the EU.

I'm contemplating voting for my (pro-remain) labour MP in the hope that labour do well but not so well that Corbyn stays on.

I don't forgive labour for fence sitting so much instead of giving proper opposition to the government in a time of unprecedented farce and waste.

It seems clear enough to me and, as a remainer, looks likely a choice between ‘soft’ Brexit and no Brexit. So, overall, sounds not too bad and I’d go for it ... if it didn’t also involve the chance of Corbyn becoming PM.

I don’t think it’s the case that people don’t understand it. I think people just don’t like it.

Labour are suggesting that the ‘better’ deal involves a permanent customs union. Many Leave voters really don’t want this. I’m not commenting on whether they are ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ - simply that they view this as a ‘worst of both worlds’ option.

Many Remain and Leave voters don’t want the process dragging out any further. They are sick of the whole thing.

I’m a Remain voter, but think that both the Conservative and Lib Dem policies on Brexit are preferable.

OP - your point 3) Enact the referendum - errrm, we have already had a referendum and it has not been enacted. Why would this be any different?