AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

@Whattodoabout - what if you are getting a bra fitting? I don't mind other women getting a view through the door of me not fully dressed while I'm trying on different bras, but I wouldn't want to share that space with men. Would I have to get fully dressed again with the bra fitter in the room before she left to get more bras?

Some women feel frightened of men, and some feel self conscious or (very sadly) ashamed. I do not have 'straight forward' feelings around men, it would genuinely stop me using that service.

Of course a person who is assaulted will be fine with it if the attacker is spoken to or banned from the shop. FFS M & S don't be stupid.

I literally can not understand the reasoning unless it is about geography.

I find it so tiresome that some people don’t see the issue with this. It reeks of privilege.

Yes, it is great that you are so forward thinking and empathetic towards men and have only ever met good ones.

But there are lots of women out there who have had horrific, traumatic experiences with men, that they’ve mostly never told anyone about, who need to be separated from men.

I can’t see why there can’t be male, female AND unisex (for those who need it for whatever reason).

Love the 'non-bonary' typo, Jumblebee.

I can’t see why there can’t be male, female AND unisex (for those who need it for whatever reason).

There’s a South Park episode where this happens, it’s quite funny...

I have only ever had bra fittings in a private locked room, never in public. I wouldn’t want anyone to see me have a bra fitting, male or female.

In the end he just has to buy clothes he thinks will fit and take them back if not. But as it is a major hassle going round shops this isn't ideal either.

5Foot5 - please don't think I am being flippant when I say this - but why doesn't he do what women on here are being advised to do, and shop online?

Most of us prefer to see the quality of the item, see how it hangs on our body, not an anorexic model or a shop dummy etc - I appreciate that your FIL has found this upsetting, but 000's of women are upset at the thought of sharing changing facilities with men.

Many of these women have been victims of abuse in the past; many are prevented for religious reasons; many are shy; many have had surgery and don't want to discuss personal details where men might overhear' many JUST DON"T WANT TO.

We don't have to give our reasons. The fact that we DON'T want to share should be enough.

Marks and Spencer have NOT said that the lingerie changing rooms will be kept single sex, in spite of what some people have been told in their local store. Their statement was in reference to a lingerie dept, and they specifically said that anyone could use the changing room that they felt “most comfortable “ in.
I can guarantee that any bloke who wants to perv on teenage girls will feel far more “comfortable “ in the Ladies lingerie changing rooms.

Yes please, could all the women who claim they are absolutely fine with men in other women's spaces please 'check your privilege'. Cheers.

No problem SchadenfiendeUnmortified.

I totally agree with your post. Why should women stay indoors and shop online just because a minority of men demand to change in women's spaces!

M&S say they have a private changing room where women can have their bras fitted. It would make more sense for the minority of men, who don't want to use the male space, to change in there. Women have no problem having bra fittings in a space where they are only other women.

M&S are the masters of their own decline.

It is not hard of thinking. Some predatory males will get off on listening in to conversations. The conversations, which go on in M&S changing rooms are more intimate than in a lot of shops. The bra fitters for example tell the person what they’re doing (eg measuring under / over breast), discuss designs, sizes, this could be a teen, post mastectomy or feeding / maternity bras etc. This is a perverts wet dream.

And then there’s the changing room design. A long, winding corridor with 50 cubicles, maybe more in some stores - a woman could easily find herself very much alone. Additionally the shop provides a service whereby women are able to request a different size. They then need to open the door, usually in a state of undress when the item of clothing arrives. But none of this mattered until now because women respect the unwritten changing room rules. Because of this it is therefore completely bogus to compare changing rooms in a supermarket or sports shop.

And no, not all doors are lockable. But I suppose disabled women are expendable.

@Whattodoabout

Gosh, what what a ridiculous response.

It’s all HILARIOUS until you are the one excluded from shops because you have PTSD about your rape and worry about being in confined and isolated spaces with male strangers.

In the email I got from M&S board nothing was mentioned about the lingerie changing room and I think they would have said if there were still going to be single sex changing rooms still available.

I bet the changing room staff on the ground absolutely hate this crap.

@5foot5
If a disabled person needs help from someone of the opposite sex to try clothes on, there either needs to be a third space or they need to try the items on at home. Not ride rough shod over everyone else. I am disabled btw before you get all upset.

I would boycott but they’ve already closed my local branch and o refuse to go to the nearest one on a horrid retail park. The end is nigh St Michael

I feel sorry for the staff too, M&S should have thought of this and wised up before making their woke gesture. Their not fecking urban outfitters ffs.

You’re perfectly entitled to withhold your custom and it’s not unreasonable.

There will still be a separate changing room for lingerie.. I asked in my local store. They also said feel free to try whatever you want on in there. Mine were only allowing fittings in the lingerie changing room the other Saturday, I had to try on bras in the regular changing room.

Provided the cubicles have a lock and aren’t the kind with a curtain, I can’t see an issue. You don’t need to leave the fitting room undressed for any reason, I have never done this or known anyone who has.

Really?

Because I've done this frequently.

And this is NOT a trans issue.

This is a WOMEN's issue.

Genuine TW - fully transitioned - I could accept that personally, though some women may still find that difficult.

All of these self-ID-ing, gender-fluid, still got their bits but "feel" like a wumman inside (whatever the heck that feels like ) - NO. No, no and a thousand times NO.

This is too open to abuse.

And even if there cubicles are floor to ceiling with fully lockable doors (dangerous if anyone collapses and ambulance staff can't get in - but, hey! it's only women - plenty more where they came from) modern cameras are tiny and discreet. They can be secreted anywhere and used to send images anywhere. A camera can be hidden in a changing room and the person responsible need never again set foot in the store - he's getting what he wants via the miracle of technology!

You think men will only want to see nubile young girls? It's not the attractiveness that turns these men on - it's the power. They do these things because they can. Even the oldest, fattest and plainest of us can be an aid to maturbation (or an object of abuse) for a lot of men, I can promise you. And our images can be plastered all over the internet and we need never find out a thing about it.

DO we really want to risk this sort of invasion into our privacy, bodies and lives?

Sexual crimes are not about sex and desire. They are about power and control.

I can't remember the last time I bought clothes there but I won't be trying anything on now.

You do wonder who advises M&S, there have been some shockers lately. A lot of the clothes look like fancy dress, there was the collecting bits of plastic tat in the summer, and now this.

Why don't they just shut down now and save us all the agony.

I also feel sorry for the staff. Are they being Gaslit , or pressured into measuring men for bras ? Do they worry about losing their job if they refuse ?
The staff at my two closest M&S branches are all absolutely lovely. Part of why I shop there. There are not enough of them, but that is my only criticism.

I've often tried things on and stepped out of the cubicle to ask my mum what she thinks. Or my mum has stepped out to ask me to do up her zip etc.

I would feel really uncomfortable doing that in front of strange men.

Question to all the Cool Girls who are totes ok with this ...

Why don't these individuals just lock the cubicle of the men's and stay there? Don't see the problem myself.

If some men don't feel uncomfortable there they need to address that not take our space making us uncomfortable.

second very good point. Demonstrating how, as explained by a pp, shopping is a leisure experience for many of us.

Are they being Gaslit , or pressured into measuring men for bras ? Do they worry about losing their job if they refuse ?

Why would you refuse to measure a man for a bra?