AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

Haven't read the the full thread. My local swimming baths have communal changing rooms. The doors don't go down to the floor, and they have metal bars running across the top to stop people climbing in that way. I never gave them a thought when I used to go, but have read a couple of cases of men being prosecuted for taking pictures with a camera phone under the door. I hope the scary woman supervisor was on duty when they got caught!

My DD's friend worked as an assistant in an upmarket department store, which had the sort of changing rooms M&S have. They had an incident where a man, who apart from wearing skinny jeans tucked into high heeled boots, looked totally ordinary, asked to try on a silk dress. It was later discovered that he had wanked on it. This person was banned from the store. They had loads of other changing room stories to tell.

*Sorry, this past week.

"M&S are letting men in women's changing rooms if it helps the men feel 'comfortable'. Have a think about that."
My understanding is that they are making both the men's and the women's changing rooms unisex. Is that not the case?

It was discussed earlier today on Jeremy Vine TV programme. He didn't seem to have any idea it was connected to Trans issues. He just seemed to be referring to men using the same changing rooms as women. Surprisingly there was no mention of women using what were men's changing rooms.

A caller worked in the bra fitting changing rooms and she said that if a man comes dressed as a woman then they can use those changing rooms. If a man is dressed as a man then they have to use the main changing rooms (now unisex). She said they are respectful towards the men dressed as women who come for bra fittings.

The changing rooms in my two local m&s branches do not have cubicles with doors from floor to ceiling. They are to the ground but are not to the ceiling.

There are also times when staff aren't present at the entrance as they are off sourcing another size for a customer.

What is to stop stalkers from following their victims under the pretext of coincidentally trying clothing on at the same time?

I think boycotting the store might be the only way to get through to M&S.

So not many then as the vast majority of men aren’t predators.

But the vast majority of predators are male.

I will be still getting my Christmas food there, hopefully the queues will be shorter and more stock. I only shop for the clothes online so not bothered about changing rooms but I have seen men in other shops changing rooms anyway

Surely they are having a room whereby women of certain faiths may go ?

Maybe to cater to all we need to go full circle and have dedicated space for biological DNA women with no body dismorphia to have their own spaces?

I do not mind transgender in women’s changing rooms if they dress and live as a woman so much.

But to a man dressed as man or a man dressed up like sex toy using female spaces is a sexual kink, not about gender.

Where does it end? Some some hairy balled man being on maternity wards as they identify as a female in labour? Or gynea? Because that’s where it’s going. Could I put on my best frock and go into top man and ask a shop assistant if my fanny looks ok in some boxers?

You bet you’re life I couldn’t. But a hairy balls man go in theory go into top shop and get undressed with teen girls. What his he flashed his balls trying on a g string? You wouldn’t prosecute a girl for that so why a man? It would under this logic for a man to go into the corridor of said changing rooms exposing himself as woman do this in changing rooms, to be equal everyone can.

You could be trying something on your dd when a man pops his pecker out in front of her. Wtf are we doing to our daughters future?

if a woman feels that a trans man behaves inappropriately they will be asked to leave or action will be taken. Maybe I'm missing something here but if a man is behaving inappropriately, surely the woman has, by this time been exposed to that behaviour, whatever it may be. A bit late at that point. And what about the assistant responsible for the changing room, there is potential for some nasty situations.

Exactly.

Stable door.

Horse.

Bolted

I agree with much of your post Welltrodden but what does it mean to dress and live as a woman?

A caller worked in the bra fitting changing rooms and she said that if a man comes dressed as a woman then they can use those changing rooms. If a man is dressed as a man then they have to use the main changing rooms (now unisex). She said they are respectful towards the men dressed as women who come for bra fittings

How does a man dress as a woman? Do you mean by wearing a skirt and heels and lipstick? If I go in wearing jeans, a hoody and no make up am I then dressed as a man?

I have emailed M&S and spoken to my local store. It is very clear from both responses that they allow men into the lingerie fitting rooms. They will try to persuade them to use the menswear changing rooms but if they are 'insistent' they will allow them into the lingerie fitting room for the purpose of trying on women's underwear

I think there are a lot of women who don't want to buy underwear items that have potentially previously been tried on and handed back by men.

My DD's friend worked as an assistant in an upmarket department store, which had the sort of changing rooms M&S have. They had an incident where a man, who apart from wearing skinny jeans tucked into high heeled boots, looked totally ordinary, asked to try on a silk dress. It was later discovered that he had wanked on it. This person was banned from the store. They had loads of other changing room stories to tell.

The prosecution rests its case.

Wait till men have to que for the unisex loo or unisex toilets, then they will get urinal only toilets to keep us woman out.

March 2018

CCTV released after man exposed himself in Newcastle Marks and Spencer changing rooms

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cctv-released-after-man-exposed-14449259

But this has happened already! Women's loos are now mixed sex in many places but men retain theirs.

M and S will fall next, like Mothercare. Overpriced mediocre is heading downwards.

I feel like I’m being forced into decisions I haven’t taken.

I think they will prob just stick with the food in the not too distant future

AryaStarkWo
Nah.
We don't need to segregate anything by sex.
Sport, changing rooms, prisons, refuges, girl guides.

American Pie meets the Inbetweeners meets Carry on Camping.
Nothing to see here.

Centre Parcs have interpreted the Equality Act 2010 correctly, and provided third spaces and still they are attacked and false claims made about the law.

But Centre Parcs wisely know (a) the actual law, and (b) its lucrative core market.

I posted this in March on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3535688-All-kicking-off-at-Primark?msg_id=85659547#85659547

At M&S recently with teen for bra fitting.

The cubicles are double ones, so a locked full length solid door with another curtained area inside.

I heard the staff turn a man away who was wanting to try something on and directed him to other changing.

He said there weren't any signs to say it was just for women and he was told that as it was in the lingerie section and fittings taking place there may be women in who may be uncomfortable.

He went off, but even assuming no dodgy intent on his part, whatever direction he approached from he had walked through several aisles of lingerie, so how he could have thought it was appropriate I really don't know.

Credit to the staff for stopping him though.

This has nothing to do with ‘trans men’.

This is not a trans issue, this is a women’s issue.

This is any man who feels ‘more comfortable’ in the ladies bra fitting section, for example. Any man who might, for whatever reason, ‘feel like a woman that day’.

Any man who might like to sit and listen/try to film/wank to women, many of them in vulnerable states, being helped to get bras fitted during pregnancy, after childbirth, after a masectomy, or any number of other sensitive situations.

Any man who might like to be in the general vicinity when young girls are being fitted for their first proper bra, when assistants are popping in and out and so on and so forth.

Men do not belong in female- only spaces. Women had to fight hard and long for protections and rights and to have sex be a protected characteristic by law.

One of the things nobody has mentioned yet is how easy I to woul be for a male in the female changing room to leave a small camera in there to record any females that go in after him.

As a man, I agree with the OPs sentiment that most men will not agree with unisex changing facilities.

As for staff taking appropriate action for transgressive behaviour, that assumes you can find one, and are prepared to say anything. M+S are a British company and should know about the reluctance of many people to complain.

Yabu

Why would you refuse to measure a man for a bra?

/// This is a piss take, surely?

And still none of you "not bothered " types have given a reason why these men can't just stay in the lockable men's cubicles. You actually don't give a shit about the discomfort, dignity and boundaries of other women, do you?

Koshkat. To not have facial hair. To never have facial hair. To not dress in overly masculine clothes, to always be like that. Somewhat passably feminine. Not to work as a builder during the week with hairy knuckles then just put a skirt on with hairy legs, socks and sandles at the weekend to try on underwear. Men who are transitioning are in the main trying to look feminine. They don’t transition to look like a man still. They are a geniue minority. But this is saying something else entirely.

It’s the indentifing as female with no outwards signs of that. Or flip flopping as the mood takes. Try stuff on at home and bring it back.