AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

After my breast surgery the M & S bra fitter was superb - kind, compassionate and discrete. Sorted me out with comfortable new bras and made the ordeal so much better. The idea that M & S (who have a USP of selling bras) now expects me to have the same discussion in a mixed sex environment is completely unacceptable.
Like many other women, I've just cancelled my account - it seems such a personal slap in the face from a company who I thought saw women as customers to be respected and supported when things were tough.

Just to put another view point forward on this. Some time back I contacted M&S on Facebook to see if they had this facility in some of their stores. At the time they said that they did not at the stores I was interested in.

The query was on behalf of my elderly PILs. MIL has dementia and really can't do much for herself and certainly could not be left alone in a changing room. She really needed some new clothes and FIL wanted to be able to go in the changing room with her - hence the need for unisex.

We don't live close by otherwise I would offer to go in with her. However, having said that she is now at the stage that she would get quite distressed if separated from FIL in an unfamiliar environment so I probably couldn't help anyway.

In the end he just has to buy clothes he thinks will fit and take them back if not. But as it is a major hassle going round shops this isn't ideal either.

@thegreatestgiftthatipossess same can happen with women. actually, i would think chances of somebody filming etc would decrease as people would pay more attention. the “female only” safety is very much an illusion

@myself2020 that's bollocks and you know it. The risk increases with men being present.

The cubicles in my local M&S are massive two part rooms with a door inside the door if that makes sense, plus floor to ceiling dividers. Don't see it as much of an issue in that set up tbh.

But then again I remember my old Topshop used to have a unisex changing room and no cubicles at all so 🤷🏼‍♀️

The trans community is NOT the problem.

Fitting rooms are NOT the problem.

The “divide and conquer” mentality of patriarchy, rape culture and yes I’m sorry some brand of feminism is the problem.

Rather than focus on challenging and changing societal views of women as objects and “less than”, the focus is on maintaining a pre GRA society where women were at as much risk of violence as they still are today.

Insanity!

I think so long as they have lockable cubicles it is fine. A number of shops I go in have unisex changing rooms, Supermarkets, H&M, Gap, sports shops, outdoor shops and many smaller shops. I think it is helpful to have a member of staff present in larger stores but most seem to do this.

M&S are letting men in women's changing rooms if it helps the men feel 'comfortable'. Have a think about that.

Women's rights are human rights - I'm not a prop for men's 'comfort'.

But it's all too easy to slip the lens of a mobile under or over the top of a cubicle

When has this ever happened in the history of M&S? Has anyone ever complained that this has happened to them? If this issue is about Transgender people (M2F) then this could already be a risk, because they would already be going into F changing rooms.

The main demographic of M&S is middle aged or retired people. And the M&S environment is just about as benign as it get Would that type of person really be doing that shit?

@thatdamnwoman If you like any of their stuff, just order it online. You can get free P&P orders over £50 (sometimes less) or free delivery to M&S food shop.

I've given up shopping and trying stuff on. I use shops to 'window shop' then order online and return after trying stuff on at home with my shoes etc.

With M&S I only buy bras and knickers. order about 5 sizes of a bra, try on and send the rest back.

Cannot be bothered taking clothes off in hot and stuffy changing rooms and having the items counted in and out as if I'm pinching some.

I would have thought that the trans community would not want the self id either. One of the reasons trans women use the female toilets is that they were getting attacked/abused in the male toilets.

I know topshop had unisex and that was the reason I never shopped in there. If they all had the enclosed cubicles with lockable doors with no gap at the top and bottom, it would be okay, but a lot of them just have curtains.

@GinDaddy You are so right, and it's even more annoying as a shareholder! Not a huge stock, and I am just watching it dive into oblivion.

There's so few staff around, that they'd be useless in the case of inappropriate behaviour.

And even if they were all King-Fu masters, by the time they have responded the damage is done. We want to prevent women and girls being assaulted - not "respond appropriately" (presumably by handing them a hanky and calling police/ambulance) after an attack has occurred.

I think M&S should have put some thought, good design and money into their changing rooms before throwing the whole issue into the women’s changing spaces and expecting us to suck it up.

I’ve emailed them too and I think I got the same reply as OP but I’ve saved a fortune already not food shopping and their clothes are shite imo.

I’ll use the men’s changing rooms everywhere when this becomes law/enforced. I’ll be working on the theory that any men with ill intent will be in the women’s ?!

It's the rationale that fucks me off. Men's 'comfort' ffs.

And anyway, try taking a baby and toddler into one of those tiny cubicles, if we're talking about practicalities.

And No I don't want to discuss my bra fitting with any old bloke in earshot (getting himself 'comfortable ').

And I think M&S is being terribly unfair to observant Jewish women.

Provided the cubicles have a lock and aren’t the kind with a curtain, I can’t see an issue. You don’t need to leave the fitting room undressed for any reason, I have never done this or known anyone who has.

If there is no problem with changing in a cubicle with a floor to ceiling door, in a female changing room, there can't be a problem with a man changing in a cubicle with a floor to ceiling door in the male changing room can there? Why is the female changing room more preferable when they are exactly the same as the male changing room?

Men are causing the problem. Stop making it another problem for women!

I doubt anyone would want to look at me, but am not giving them the opportunity.

It's not just the possibility that a person could peep through a curtain or under a door, there are phones on cameras and incidents where a camera has been hidden.

I don't shop in M&S because the clothes are a weird shape and seemed to be aimed at people with waists that are at the top of their bum crack and are straight up and down, not to mention the awful styles and colours, but if I want anything it is underwear which I order online.

Not just M&S though, I would rather buy and return from a store or online that use a mostly grubby changing room with assistants that glare as you hand stuff back.

Women are something like 18 times more likely to be sexually assaulted in mixed sex facilities than those sgregated by sex, as determined at conception and observed at birth.

Male people commit 98.4% of sexual crime in England and Wales according to the most recent government figures.

Not providing single sex, as determined at conception and observed at birth, spaces for people in a state of undress, a state of unconsciousness or where physical contact is involved is deliberately, knowingly, willingly putting women and girls at risk.

Companies that choose to do this will not get my hard earned.

I will give my money to those who do not choose to support sex offending instead.

If you like any of their stuff, just order it online

You do realise that for many of us clothes shopping is a social activity, don't you? Meet a friend, have coffee, try on some clothes ands your friend's opinion, buy something your friend confirms suits you, have lunch etc

Why should women be kept indoors all day every day? Why should we have to do our shopping online, and clothes-trying at home?

If (genuine) trans women are getting bullied by men, then why isn't the answer to provide safe cubicles in the men's changing area, rather than let any self-ID-ing possible pervert into the women's area?

Sorry TwoPups

I've virtually repeated your post - should have read further.

M&S have closed my local store, and my second most local store. So not an issue for me.

It’s already a really difficult trading environment for retail organisations. Huge numbers of people lose their jobs if M&S go under. So no, I’m not going to boycott them, or anyone else for that matter. I only take my clothes off inside the cubicle anyway.

But this surely is a trans issue otherwise why have they done it?

It's GOT to be a trans issue - there is no other logical reason.

It's the same as mixed gender loos. It's for people who can't make up their minds what they are or are transitioning.

What annoys me is that trans people are a tiny minority yet we all have to be inconvenienced so they feel comfortable.

I think the pendulum has swung too far and if it 's not pc to say it, I don't care.