AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

Ever...
www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/17722762.surrey-police-launch-investigation-after-girls-filmed-in-rainbow-leisure-centre-changing-room/

Not in a month of Sundays
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/eaton-centre-voyeur-recording-change-rooms-1.5203616

They dont care about your 200 going elsewhere. I agree theres no need to make this change but there is nothing anyone can do about it. The shops are going ahead with what they want to do.

Oh but that's entirely inaccurate.

M&S are fucked. They need their demographic to remain loyal in the current market. They need their very specific demographic in order to keep their shops open. So you're wrong. Customers boycotting M&S (rightly) will ensure that they go under, and all because M&S wanted to look woke.

I hope John Lewis and Waitrose's profits soar from this madness.

Those were just a few examples, mainly from changing rooms. This doesn't include the rapes and paedophilia, some of it documented here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?pg=8&order=

Single sex spaces exist because of the fundamental physical differences between females and males, and of the implications of those differences. We have female only changing rooms and spaces (to quote The Spectator)

keep women safe from those male-bodied people who might do them harm. To keep women safe from people with penises who might use those penises to do things to women that women do not want to happen.

Well good news re John Lewis ! At least I can take DD there to try on bras. My nearest JL is much further away than my closest M&S, but I think unless Marks do a swift about turn on this ridiculous policy , I will be visiting JL more often instead.

@OrangeSlices998 whilst working in BHS twice I had to Chuck males that I found masturbating in female cubicles. At the age of 17 it was quite traumatic.

OverByYer
🤢 so sorry you had to deal with that.

If boys grow up having to share with women, would it make women's bodies less of a mystery, would they have more respect towards women? I don't know.

Boys currently have free and unfettered access to an unlimited variety of female bodies in the form of porn on their phones. Grannies, amputees, dwarves, teens, anorexic, hairy, grossly obese, you name it, there's a porn category for it.
I'd suggest it has made them less respectful not more.

shouldn't we already be worried about teenage boys having to do the same

I'm quite harsh on this one. I say no. I might be worried about specific teenage boys who I might be related to, but in general men's issues are men's issues to sort out. Likewise gender non-conforming men. Not my problem. Elderly men. Not my problem. Vulnerable men. Not my problem.

Men aren't all bastards, let them take care of their own, including boys. If men, who run the entire world, can't organise a bit of safety and security in a changing room for an elderly man with dementia or a man in a dress, that's a sad indictment of them as people. It's not our job to look after every man to the detriment of women and girls.

Men aren't all bastards, let them take care of their own, including boys. If men, who run the entire world, can't organise a bit of safety and security in a changing room for an elderly man with dementia or a man in a dress, that's a sad indictment of them as people. It's not our job to look after every man to the detriment of women and girls.

I think we should all try and consider vulnerable people regardless of their gender. Telling men to 'look after their own' is certainly not a message that chimes with my notions of feminism.

I'm not going to be boycotting it. And, if I might venture, that perhaps M&S are aware that in the battle between 'set in their ways older people' vs what a PP called 'gender warrior students', there might be an advantage to being more open and inclusive to the next generation of shoppers who appreciate businesses who take note of this kind of thing...? Whether or not you like businesses becoming more inclusive of peoples' identities, it's happening and is something that, generally, younger people are leading the awareness of. Setting your stall out as a business who champions inclusivity like this is a smart business move - for every 10 women who staunchly boycott M&S there'll be 30 more who realise they can't get their best tights/Christmas food elsewhere and will carry on shopping there anyway.

Telling men to 'look after their own' is certainly not a message that chimes with my notions of feminism.
Each to their own, I did say I was harsh on that one. You crack on.

Whether or not you like businesses becoming more inclusive of peoples' identities, it's happening and is something that, generally, younger people are leading the awareness of

Small sample size, I don't know what age you are branding 'young' but I would consider myself fairly young and I am very much against this, I know quite a few 15 - 18 year olds who are also very much against this.

I don't think young people are generally for this at all, it is very much a very vocal minority in my opinion.

Boys currently have free and unfettered access to an unlimited variety of female bodies in the form of porn on their phones

Yes, a very skewed image of the female body that's very much tied up with sex. Whereas just being around normal women going about normal things would reprogramme their brains so that naked women don't automatically equal sex. I'm not a psychologist, I don't know if that's how it would work, perhaps studies have been done on cultures where nakedness is more of a norm and women's bodies aren't shamed and hidden away.

This ‘inclusivity’ that you speak of - do you have any idea what it actually means in real terms?

Do you have any understanding??

Because it’s batshit crazy, and hugely damaging in so many ways.

I despair. It’s like trying to convince a multitude of sheep not to march glibly to their slaughter, and that of their lambs. All the while shouting back at us that no, this is really what they want, they don’t mind at all!

I give up. Let hell come and we’ll just have to fight the whole fight again, from the very beginning.

They dont care about your 200 going elsewhere. I agree theres no need to make this change but there is nothing anyone can do about it. The shops are going ahead with what they want to do.

Every little helps.

This year alone I would have bought PJ's x4 for my mother and siblings, a Christmas jumper, socks ,a party food order, mince pies and cakes. I can go to Sainsburys et al.

for every 10 women who staunchly boycott M&S there'll be 30 more who realise they can't get their best tights/Christmas food elsewhere and will carry on shopping there anyway.

But that’s still 25% of their customer base they’ve lost.

The kind of man who insists on changing in the female space isn’t the kind of man I would want there.

They might not care (but trust me, en masse actions like these do actually have an impact - they will care, and so will their shareholders), but I do. I’m taking a principled stand and that’s enough for me.

And its the perfect time of year for this to really hit them hard - the Christmas period makes up a huge chunk of retail revenue, and I would ordinarily have done the majority of my shopping there, for food, home goods, and gifts.

My ‘up yours’ will count, actually.

Sad for the staff, though (having worked in retail myself).

But needs must.

Anyway I’m off to soothe my spirit with a couple of g&t’s.

I wouldn’t mind this if the changing rooms were well staffed, with more than one person constantly in attendance. But they aren’t.

YANBU

Women's space were fought hard for. Sexual violence is almost always committed by a man.

I don't want to get changed with men.

Men aren't all bastards, let them take care of their own, including boys. If men, who run the entire world, can't organise a bit of safety and security in a changing room for an elderly man with dementia or a man in a dress, that's a sad indictment of them as people. It's not our job to look after every man to the detriment of women and girls

👏👏👏👏👏 couldn't agree more with the above.

for every 10 women who staunchly boycott M&S there'll be 30 more who realise they can't get their best tights/Christmas food elsewhere and will carry on shopping there anyway.

Seriously? What possible benefit is it to these women to have mixed sex changing rooms and bra fitting rooms?

You appear to be saying that despite the fact that they don't want them, too bad, because they can't get the stuff they want elsewhere.

Way to go. What a wonderful attitude.

lotsofoysters are you really saying that it would be a really good thing for teenage boys to see women in various states of undress or naked in changing rooms to help their development as people? Really? FFS.