AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

I was wondering - is there any chance that the board of M&S are deliberately attempting to scuttle their own ship here?

Is there anything in it for them, personally, if the shops go under?

I mean, they won't give a damn about the staff who are made redundant - and it seems that they aren't bothered about going under, so is there anything that could work in their (personal) favour if the company goes out of business?

Could they be speeding this up?

@SchadenfiendeUnmortified The obvious way to benefit from driving M&S into the ground would be for them to 'short' the stock. Here's a brief explanation www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist but the connection between Target in the USA and M&S is shocking to me. Target in 2015 changed their fitting rooms to 'unisex' and immediately there was an upsurge in predation. Once burned, twice shy you would think. If someone with inside knowledge of this policy shorted the stock before the Halal announcement and this issue hitting the mainstream press they could have made some real money. The US markets have mandatory disclosure of this but I'm not sure about the level of UK disclosure.

I know there are 'gender experts' out there scaring the bejeezus out of corporate, charity and government types by misuse of the Equality Act. But a company with the traditions and customer base of M&S (not to mention the resources) should have sought binding legal advice before leaping to offend so many customers.

I'm going to find out who the non-executive directors are at M&S and see if I can communicate with them. Might at least make some boardroom conversations happen.

Also - am I the only one that suspects there are trolls popping up on these threads?

I already Boycott m and s but would have chosen to do so over the changing rooms. Boycotts are not always short lived, some people do actually live by their beliefs you know.

Thats to the people who think a Boycott will only last a few weeks.

Also to all those women who it doesn't bother, then great for you. Carry on shopping where you like but do not give away the rights of other women to make their own choices about their privacy and comfort, what right do you have to give up other women's rights?

Even if it doesn't bother you, you should be respectful of differences and want to aid other women in keeping their rights to their privacy and comfort.

But hey that would be too much to expect wouldn't it? But if women won't support other women and men historically will not, the battle is already lost, isn't it?

Such selfish shortsighted women on this thread and in life. I hope they don't have daughters as the slope has begun and it is not a slippery slope but a damn huge cliff, with which some women are willing and happy to push hard fought for and hard won rights (and spaces) off!

This is really interesting, because on the one hand I feel very strongly about the safety and integrity of women only spaces, and the rights of women to feel safe. However, I also know from my experience working with victims of sexual violence that I never met anyone who had been assaulted in a public changing room - that's not to say, of course, that it doesn't happen. But the overwhelming majority were victims of men they knew, not a stranger in a cubicle changing room.

So I feel very unsure. Mostly I agree with the consensus it's a daft move, but I do think we need to be vigilant to how women can feel unsafe outside of an M&S changing room, and argue and voice our opinions as loudly about those instances too.

However, I also know from my experience working with victims of sexual violence that I never met anyone who had been assaulted in a public changing room

That's probably because until very recently changing rooms have been segregated....

Quite TwoPups.

They dont care about your 200 going elsewhere. I agree theres no need to make this change but there is nothing anyone can do about it. The shops are going ahead with what they want to do.

And it will be another nail in the high street's coffin sadly.

However, I also know from my experience working with victims of sexual violence that I never met anyone who had been assaulted in a public changing room

OrangeSlice you're right about women generally being assaulted by someone they know (sadly).

But the problem is, do we have to wait until a woman is assaulted in an all-sex changing area or changing room? You know, "not being assaulted in public" is a pretty low bar for women's safety. I thought women had rather more rights to bodily autonomy and freedom to be in public space than that.

And there is a growing number of stories about spy cams in women's lavatories & changing rooms ...

And there is a growing number of stories about spy cams in women's lavatories & changing rooms ...

Well quite. And I'm sure all the women and girls who end up on porn sites being wanked over, didn't realise they were victims of a sex crime, either.

I know, Datun it's scary ...

Oh no - there's no way I'd feel comfortable trying on clothes in a unisex changing room The curtains hardly ever close properly for starters, so people walking past can often see straight into the changing rooms.

I won't be shopping at M&S any longer unfortunately as I'll be way too self conscious to try anything on. I hope John Lewis doesn't follow suit!

Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are - this will be when the men get annoyed with having women in their changing rooms.

'Police said they found more than 60 images of women and girls on the phone of a man accused of drilling holes in Target dressing rooms.'

www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Chester-County-Man-Target-Stores-Montgomery-County-Holes-Drilling-Child-Pornography-Charges-511088221.html

And during my search for that link I could see a link to a site called 'Dressing Room
Porn' where it appears there is a video of a stepmom changing in Target and a video upskirting a cheerleader.. those are the two that appear under the link. No doubt there are scores...

I hope John Lewis doesn't follow suit!

They are refreshingly clear on the matter. As it happens I just spoke to them. They said no men would be admitted to the lingerie fitting rooms to try on underwear, no matter how insistent. It's a strict policy, the men use the men's changing room, the women use the women's.

So JL and Waitrose will be getting all that cash I used to spend in M&S.

Go JL! Thank god that they know what's what. Fuck M&S.

All M&S changing rooms will be mixed, including lingerie. Here is their official reply:

'As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

'We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.'

The original version (sent to my mother) includes this now deleted line:

'All M&S fitting rooms have lockable cubicles designed to protect each customer’s privacy'

Clearly deleted when customers pointed out that not all their changing rooms are lockable after all.

Orange I have "only" been sexually assaulted twice - both by complete strangers in opportunistic attacks. I have also had teenagers ogling DD and me while we changed at the local pool - they were in the lockable cubicle next to ours. All they had to do was stand on their bench and lo and behold - several women in a state of undress. By the time I finished dressing they were already being dealt with by the swimming pool staff as they had been reported by other women. Oh and the teenagers in question were male, in case it needed clarifying.

But this never happens...

I am boycotting. I appreciate that M&S may not care about a small number of us, but I want to send a message in my small way.

But this never happens

www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-who-secretly-filmed-female-students-in-toilets-at-university-of-east-anglia-in-norwich-to-be-sentenced-today-1-4790075

Doesn't happen..

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/17657739.pervert-filmed-22-women-and-girls-getting-changed-at-darwen-leisure-centre/?ref=twtrec

Never...
losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/06/14/lancaster-woman-helps-nab-alleged-peeping-tom-she-says-photographed-her-in-legoland-changing-room/

I'm on the fence.

I understand that some women may feel hugely uncomfortable and scared about sharing spaces like that with men.
On the other hand, predatory men also commit offenses against boys (of any age), and boys use male changing areas already. If we're worried about teenage girls having to change next door to a predatory man, shouldn't we already be worried about teenage boys having to do the same?

I also wonder if having more shared spaces will have a long term positive effect - ie, if it becomes normal, men will get less of a thrill from being in a changing room with women because it isn't forbidden. If boys grow up having to share with women, would it make women's bodies less of a mystery, would they have more respect towards women? I don't know.

I think the only real solution is to have completely separate cubicles to increase everybody's privacy (I don't particularly like it when other women are using the changing rooms when I'm having my bra fitted!). But that's unlikely to happen.