AIBU to want to boycott M&S?

[thatdamnwoman]

Marks & Spencer has made its changing rooms unisex because it is striving to be inclusive and it wants everyone to feel comfortable in whichever changing room they want. Which means that a woman like me, who wants to try on clothes in an area where I know I won't encounter men if I step outside the cubicle to see how a garment moves when I walk, is now excluded from M&S.

There's evidence that when facilities are made unisex the number of sexual incidents goes up:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I think most ordinary men are horrified at the thought of unisex facilities. They're worried that they might cause offence or be mistakenly accused of predatory behaviour. On the other hand the changing rooms will be a magnet for all those men who get a transgressive thrill from going where they shouldn't and being just a few inches away from where a woman's changing her clothing.

I've contacted M&S and they just say they want to be inclusive and if anything happens to anyone in the changing room they'll take appropriate action. But why should anything inappropriate have to happen?

This year we're having guests for four days over Christmas and I would normally be spending at least £200 at M&S. This year I'll shop elsewhere instead. And I won't be buying gifts or clothes or home stuff from them either.

Will anyone join me in a boycott?

Predators come in both genders.

How transphobic to state that there are but two 'genders'!

I think that you meant sex in any case and I also think that you will find that one sex commits 98% of all sex crime.

Men.

I'm sure this may have been said upthread, but my husband I imagine is pretty representative of a lot of men, insomuch as his sympathies lie totally with women not having their privacy invaded and would hate to be encroaching on their space in a changing room scenario. Marks and Spencer are ignoring the majority for an infintesimal minority and they can't afford to.

@5foot5 I've sent you a PM x

My husband also would be mortified if he was expected to change next to a girl or woman. He just wouldn't do it out of respect for them and their privacy/dignity.

The kind of man who will happily embrace this bullshit is precisely the kind of man who should not be allowed to.

M&S are WELCOMING in perverts and predators and women are supposed to be 'kind'.

Fuck that.

Yes. Seriously, fuck that shit.

Today would have been my sixth visit to M&S since this policy was made known to me, and again, I will be going elsewhere to get the things I need.

YANBU. Many, if not most, of these cross-dressing men are fetishists - autogynophilia - who get a sexual thrill from being in women's private places. Here's a famous one, writing about masturbating in a woman's changing room while fantasising about being in 'women's wanking circle' , and then accidentally-on-purpose 'forgetting' he is naked, opening the changing room door, mid-wank, stark bollock naked, to the poor (female) changing room assistant: www.refinery29.com/en-gb/mindfulness-negative-body-image

I have two young daughters heading towards puberty. There is no way M&S will be getting a penny out of me - whether it is bra-fitting, weekly food shop, or Christmas dinner splurge - until they reverse this disastrous and insulting decision. And I will cut up my M&S credit card. I have written to them and will be waiting their reply...

My DH would not want to be in a changing room with women and girls either. He would feel massively uncomfortable. As do all the decent blokes I know. Why, WHY, is this happening? Why have these 'woke' companies lost their minds and seem to be leaving decision making to 22-year old interns?

Pretty much that is what one man did to me. He opened the changing room , almost certainly mid wank, called me over, and asked me what I thought about how he looked.
He was five foot five, greasy hair, milk bottle glasses. Wearing only a diaphanous silk 1930s nightdress and socks, pointing his erection right at me.

In spite of that deeply unpleasant experience, it had somehow never occurred to me that I might be buying underwear in M&S that some ghastly bloke had already...er.....tried on. Probably as I never imagined said ghastly bloke getting into the fitting rooms to start with.

There will still be female only changing rooms for underwear.

No there will not be, they have gone, all changin is open to who ever 'feels comfortable'.

It does make me wonder what they would do if i self ID as a tomato and change my clothes in the fresh veg department?

Men who are 'insistent' on using the lingerie fitting rooms are allowed in.

How is this even something that they would say out loud?

It's breathtaking.

We want to keep women's spaces separate, and women and girls comfortable and safe from men, unless men intimidate us enough to say otherwise.

I told my DH about this and he thinks it's a ridiculous idea. There is no way he would like a female in the cubicle next door to him. I did say that was unlikely although I might just take some items into what was the men's changing room as a matter of principle to piss off men. I won't buy the clothes though. I'll just pretend to try them on just to give the staff a lot more clothing to put back.
Unless men complain I don't think M&S will do anything about it.

If I worked on the shop floor of DC M&S and had duties looking after the changing rooms, I would definitely look for another job in a company offering single sex dressing rooms.

@Ginfordinner I'd advise M&S employees to find other jobs now rather than wait for the company to go bust.

@Datun Yes quite.

In fact in practice this means ‘unless they intimidate the female assistants enough.’

That in itself is not acceptable.

@Whitleyboy and others whose husbands/boyfriends/partners understand and thoroughly disapprove, please suggest that they write in and complain. About both sides of the issue - men’s opinions, but more importantly that no man belongs in the female-only spaces.

I know Datun.

She said they would try to persuade men to use the Menswear changing rooms but if they refused they'd let them into the lingerie fitting rooms.

She was obviously very uncomfortable about this and completely understood my concerns but said that because of 'current trends' M&S could not be seen to 'victimise people'.

So it comes back to women being regarded as not really people, doesn't it?

Because I sure as hell feel I'm the victim under this policy. And M&S have made it plain that I don't count.

She was obviously very uncomfortable about this and completely understood my concerns but said that because of 'current trends' M&S could not be seen to 'victimise people'.

It's so craven. And it must be addressed.

Expecting men to use the men's changing room, or, say, an additional gender neutral one, isn't victimisation.

If they think it is, I'd love to hear why.

victimization
/vɪktɪmʌɪˈzeɪʃ(ə)n/

noun: victimisation
the action of singling someone out for cruel or unjust treatment.

If a shop selling women's clothes and underwear to women, cannot justify why those women prefer sex segregated changing rooms, and why they are not considered 'cruel and unjust', then God help them.

Additionally, they are not singling out transwomen, it applies to all men. Irrespective of their gender identity. Furthermore it is covered in the equality act. For just such an occasion.

It's legal, rational, preferable, normal and inclusive.

As far as I'm concerned, and I love M&S, they deserve everything they get now.

To those who ‘do not see what the fuss is about’, this is the incident that started this whole furore for M&S:

www.womanandhome.com/life/marks-spencer-respond-angry-complaints-gender-neutral-changing-rooms-338273/

This is what happens now, and will continue to happen!

Would you have been comfortable with a man in the fitting room area when you weren’t being fitted for your first bra, aged 15? Are you happy for there to be men in the lingerie fitting room area when you take your daughters in to get their first bra?

Any man who feels ‘more comfortable’ there? Really??

So it comes back to women being regarded as not really people, doesn't it?

Again, Critical

Yet again.

It's extraordinary, isn't it?

It's always men wanting access to women's spaces. We don't find militant TM - or even women who "feel" like men - insisting on going into men's areas.

Or when they do try, they get short shrift.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/05/uk-gym-banned-trans-man-from-using-mens-changing-rooms/

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

(The article immediately above is from this MN thread
'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts) )

www.thesun.co.uk/uncategorized/5480118/ms-staff-ban-silent-witness-star-liz-carrs-transgender-pal-from-male-changing-room/

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/topless-woman-male-only-swimming-pool-protest-gender-recognition-act-amy-desir-dulwich-south-london-a8261801.html

And how is it that men can have segregated swimming sessions for cultural reasons, but apparently women can't?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1547521/fury-after-women-are-banned-from-male-only-swimming-pool-in-luton-for-cultural-reasons/

Ugh *were, obviously!

I love M&S too. I feel so disappointed in them. They are a stalwart of the high street. I did a rough “stocktake” last night of all the things I have bought there in the last six months or so.
Soft bra to sleep in
Bras for dd1 (4 or 5)
Pants for me (loads)
Pants for dd1 ( ten)
Pants for dd2 ( ten)
Crop tops for dd2 (a dozen)
Socks for school (15 pairs)
Socks for elsewhere, girls (ten pairs)
Socks for DH (ten pairs)
Socks for me (four pairs)
Tights for school (eight pairs)
Tights for me (thirty or more pairs, as I also bought tights for a fashion thing I was doing)
Camisoles for me (three)
Camisoles for dd1 (four)
Ditto for dd2 ( five)
Nightdress (one)
Pyjamas for dd1 ( four pairs)
Ditto for dd2 ( two pairs)
Jumper for dd1
T shirts for me and for dd1
Thermal tops for dd1 (two)
Trousers for dd1 (four pairs)
Trousers for school (four pairs)
Gloves for Aunt (one pair)
Baby outfit for a friend
Beauty products
Earrings
Gift wrap and cards
Cashmere Jumper for me
Plant x2
Flowers sent, and flowers to take home
And that is before we get onto all the stuff from the food hall, or all the other things I have forgotten !

I will no longer be getting my bras from there, I loved their service, but due to past events in my life, the very thought of a man anywhere near me when I'm getting changed is anxiety inducing and repulsive.

bad call M & S....

When I took DD1 in there for her first bra fitting, she would have been really distressed if she had seen a man come in to the female fitting rooms.

It's this word 'comfort', isn't it?

Most people think of a transsexual as an effeminate gay man, with great set dysphoria, head down, just getting on with it. Wanting to stay under the radar and not draw too much attention to themself.

Fetishistic cross dressers, on the other hand, revel in the public's unwitting participation in validating and affirming that they are women.

Most of the time, this falls to women. Shop assistants, retailers, historically female only online forums, etc.

So whose comfort are M&S most likely to be serving? Certainly not women's. They come way down the list.

I honestly can't get my head around the commercial suicide of this outlook.

I'm assuming they will hope that not enough people will be bothered. But the complete contempt for their female core customers is shocking.

Not great set dysphoria! Gender dysphoria!!

I will 'feel more comfortable' in men's changing room from now on. I apologise, as I will probably make some men unfomfortable - but it's less uncomfortable for them to have me there, than for me to change next to that type of a man who 'insists' to be let into women's lingerie fitting rooms.