Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

At no point have I said what gender I, B or RP are.

True. But it's pretty obvious that B is the dead beat dad. RP is the mum picking up the pieces of B being a dead beat dad. And you are the new partner of B who has bought his sob story about having to 'take a break; from his child.

I was of the understand that if the grandparents had a significant enough relationship with their grandchildren then they could apply for contact. It was certainly granted to somebody I know who saw the GC a couple of times a week until they were 7yrs old, before the RP moved away and denied contact. She gets one Saturday in 3.

So there was lot she could have tried, did she?

If my DD’s (almost 12) estranged grandmother wanted contact because she was dying (which is likely - she’s a 40 a day smoker) then it would be a cold day in hell before I allowed her to put a massive decision on my DD.

I’m sorry OP, the time for action was many years ago. You’re not owed a response from the RP and certainly not owed an undertaking that the poor DC made the decision themselves.

Many years ago A still saw the child regularly.

Just to be clear A doesnt smoke or drink and never has, that makes no difference in my eyes but some PP seem to view those who do as deserving their illnesses.

I'm also not Bs partner.

A isn't a lawyer. A was told by a lawyer 2.5 years ago there was no point applying for contact in their own right given RPs obvious intransigence. A took the advice given.

so diddl has to grow up but you can stomp your feet and demand your own way? Yeah ok 🙄

Look if the RP chose to not have as relationship with A that’s their right as the RP, to decide who is safe for their child. Adidnt get the hint.

Nothing changed. The custodial parent still gets to decide who is safe for their minor child to be in communication with. Illness and impending death don’t change that.

You asked your question. You got your answers. From parents, estranged family members, people with experience of cancer and death, social workers... I mean seriously we covered all the bases.

You’re not hearing us because you want a different answer. That’s selfish.

That’s why people are getting fed up with you. You, B and possibly even A are being selfish. .

Selfish. Irresponsible. Thoughtless. At the expense of a child. Again.

Your anger and frustration is wholly misdirected OP. You should be furious with B for abandoning his child and not pursuing contact years ago. Getting arsey with posters telling you that you and the rest of the family are being selfish and blaming the RP is completely pointless.

B chose to create this situation. And short of writing to the RP to explain the situation, there will be no chance of a court ordering that a 12 year old who has previously been abandoned suddenly has to have contact with dying members of their family. At best, even if B applied to court today, it will be months before you get a hearing. The child’s best interests will have to be considered and school, CAFCASS, therapists etc consulted. And then, at the end of it all, B might get an hour’s supervised contact a week, just for them. Not the rest of family. Until they can rebuild a relationship with their child. It’s too late. B has left it too late.

Write a letter and appeal to the RP’s heart. You have no other chance.

For the sake of saying it, B is at fault.

B should have maintained a relationship. Why didn’t they?
You haven’t answered that, you’ve swerved it totally.

My sister died of cancer. My father too-suddenly without much warning. Mum had breast cancer.

Cancer will have touched almost everyone’s lives here one way or another. Have some compassion.

If you are and I am not assuming you are, but if you are the new partner your alarm bells should be absolutely blaring if this is the story B has fed you.

No contact, a criminal court case, the evil RP. It’s a very familiar narrative abusive men spin. So if, if this is you, please take a beat to reflect on that. And reflect on what the vast majority of posters are advising here.

OP - you, A and B. All so unbelievably selfish. B would not be stopped from seeing a child if there was no fit and proper reason

RP is protecting this child

Thank goodness someone is!

B should want contact because the child is theirs and who wouldn’t fight for their own child?

Fighting to see a child, just because someone is passing away isn’t the right way to go about that at all.

If B wants contact, that needs to be a separate issue and nothing to with A’s situation.

The aim of your post is that A will get some closure and see the child before they leave this earth.

The aim should be that B needs to step up and make an effort in their child’s life, but A shouldn’t be the reason for that and the child shouldn’t be involved in this.
And if B really cared he would let the dust settle before doing any of this.

Otherwise contact will begin just because of A then when A is gone that child will have a double blow.

I doubt social services would facilitate any of this.

For one, why hasn’t B made the call to social services?

You need to step back I think op. A just needs support, I’m not sure this situation would help anything.

OP your upset is understandable, the grieving process doesn't necessarily start after death, and it can make us act in ways which we may look back on and regret. I truly think in this scenario it would be extremely unfair on a child to be brought back into a family in a time of complete upheaval and mourning. It wouldn't be in the child's best interests, and an adult has to stand up for that. Neither should it be put on his shoulders that the decision is his to visit a dying relative as one of their "last wishes". No 11 or 12yo needs that sort of pressure, he could regret a decision either way.

I saw my grandmother die when I was 14, I loved her dearly and saw her daily, but I will never get out of my head how she was in those last days.

Op... B needs to contact A and leave it in her hands . You have no idea what has happened to him in 2 years .

It is not a ss issue .

I have no idea who advised B but leaving it 2 years will not work to his advantage either legally or in the eyes of the child .

B is a little bit busy dealing with a parents terminal illness. I'd have thought that was obvious.

Closure is for the living, not the dead or dying.

If the grandparent wishes to be kind, they - or one of their carers - could select something to send to the grandchild to help remember them when they are gone. I would suggest an old photograph, an item of personal jewellery, or a small keepsake that evokes the grandparent's known interests/any previously shared memory.

No one gets affection on demand, even if they are dying. The child is definitely old enough to know whether they want contact with parent B or any of B's family including A. Manipulating the child for the sake of A will likely affect any future potential reconciliation with B. Perhaps A should consider the negative repercussions for their own child B before they continue demanding to see the grandchild? (I would point out that the child is also old enough for their opinion to carry weight in the family courts. They could easily be made a party to any action and refuse all contact outright - particularly if negative emotions cause a blunt reaction.)

And, as it appears to be a thread prerequisite, I confirm that some members of my family have died from cancer. In fact, all of my grandparents are dead and I did not get to see them when they were dying. However, I do pity your situation and hope that time is kind to you and your friends. All we spend is time. All we leave are memories. Mayhap the child will remember the grandparent kindly in the future.

So you think he can deal with the questions, puzzle and anger of a 12 year old right now?

If he can’t even enquire himself, the child shouldn’t be being involved by you.

I don't understand the portrayal of B & The grandparents here.

The image painted is one where no communication channel was available to B; no legal route to maintain a relationship; it was an option to just "walk away" and hope the child wanted to re-establish contact with B with such force that it gets a court to support?! etc

Aside from being able to blame the child at 13 for the reason why this deadbeat B doesn't see them (handy, that - blaming the RP and then the child for a relationship not being there! That's fucked up).

It cannot, cannot be true about no option being available to maintain a relationship. If I was separated from my children,I would investigate every option, every avenue, every spark of hope, until my dying breath. The idea of being separated from them, if not being in their lives, is too painful to imagine. Any decent parent feels the same.

The Time for solicitor letters and courts was years ago. Not now. And it should have been to maintain a B/child relationship. Ffs, even if I didn't have a penny to my name, I'd still get to citizens advice and represent myself, anything, even if to prove to the child in future that I fought for them with everything I have!

If B really wanted the child involved he would pick up the phone himself.

Does B even know what you’re doing?

Though I have sympathy with the desperation of the dying grandparent what is in the best interest of the child is paramount.

I watched my own grandmother die of cancer but I was

a) an adult
b) very close to her

Younger cousins who did not have a close bond with her felt frightened and freaked out by her deterioration and were kept away after a point.

I don't think its wise if they haven't had contact in some years

The RP may be hostile and wrong to refuse contact, or may be entirely justified, we can't know.

What we can know is that if B had pursued court contact 2 1/2 years ago, and it granted, then A would have had contact with their grandchild via that route.

They didn't and I expect they are under a lot of pressure now to suddenly re=establish contact. Part of A's sadness will not just be not seeing the grandchild, but B's crapness as a parent which led them to lose contact with their child. This whole 'we have to act' thing is about repairing this mistake.

Also... No response is a response.

Just because the RP hasn't responded to messages, doesn't mean it's appropriate to push on & escalate.

OP, seriously.
Something that you do not know about happened so bad that A was even stopped from contact, their number was changed and the school was changed and the grandparents weren’t allowed to know. Something sinister happened enough for RP to be scared enough to do this and for B to know enough bro bit challenge it. B getting back in touch in a few years Is bollocks. The kid will now he’s had no cards or presents from B and B has made no attempt to ask how they are.

Of course B can still take 10mins to find the time to contact RP, but I’m guessing there is something deeper here why it can’t come from them.

Why should the childs parent offer them up to enter a traumatising circumstance with people they've not seen in years without their main reliable caregiver at the insistence of a former in law?

This is selfishness personified.

Based on all your responses the child is better left alone.
Really disgusting and telling behavior from you OP.

I have no idea who you are in this situation however you remind me of ex’s mum . There was always a reason he didn’t do lots of things .

Yes losing his mum is tough however if he wants this to happen he needs to actually get himself together to contact rp .

It depends what his priorities are . There is no point getting shirty with posters because this is the reality not created by mn.

Huggedtrees and others try not to make assumptions. I was around 2.5 years ago and well before that. I know everything. Being selective about info I write here or changing some non relevant detail doesn't mean I'm unaware of the full picture.

SS have put us in touch with another entity who may be able to act as intermediary and seek to confirm if from RP its a no/ take me to court/ I'll consider it/ or any other response.

B is a little bit busy dealing with a parents terminal illness. I'd have thought that was obvious.

But A has only just been diagnosed, so B has had 2.5 years to go to a solicitor and make sure there’s contact. They were going to do so “in the next 12 months”. What a joke of a parent!

I have every sympathy for A, but they’ve raised a child who had abandoned their kid. You all need to take this up with B, who, just in case you haven’t worked it out - is a shit parent.

I almost laughed out loud when you said you’d involve SS to force the RP to bring the child for contact. They’ve got so so so much to do. So much, you cannot even imagine their workload. To think they’d get involved with what is essentially a family drama, is preposterous. Nobody’s saying they don’t sympathise with A. It’s heartbreaking and clearly they have been desperate to stay in touch, but that’s not the child’s fault. It’s B’s fault.

BTW whatever your position in all of this, if I was the RP and you’d ever carried on towards me in the way that you’ve been attacking people on this thread, I would be ignoring you all too!

You cannot drag an 11/12 year old CHILD to a visit a dying person they haven't seen for years? What on earth? This is a terrible idea.