Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

OP, I hear your hurt but you’re lashing out and not listening to the good advice. If you go all gung ho and threatening with legal letters, you’ll probably destroy any chance of a relationship with this child. A polite request via letter may get you somewhere.

I have vast experience with courts. Both as a child and as an adult.

A judge would take a very dim view of an absent for years NRP attempting to get an expedited court order for contact based on a terminal illness of one is his family.

Because the judge and CAFCASS advocate for the child.

At best, after around 16-28 weeks of First Hearings, Directions Hearings, possible adjournments, he MIGHT get indirect contact, or tiny amounts of supervised contact.

They would most certainly NOT order a full blown visit to a dying relative with the absent parent.

Cop the fuck on.

I can’t believe you’ve just replied with that.

Firstly you wish cancer on others,
Secondly no one else’s experience is as bad as yours
And you’re not listening to the advice.

You’ve also made a joke of cancer.

Depart from the thread OP, and please leave a 12 year old out of it.

Oh dear, this has got very nasty.
OP there are many of us who have experience of family dying of cancer. Other horrible deaths are available too.
We understand this has rocked your world.
We understand that A wants to see the DC.
But the DC may not want to see A, and the DCs Mum may not want there to be contact either.
Why is it not appropriate for you to write to the DCs Mum? (Have you done something that means she will not want to hear from you?)
It sounds as if you are determined at whatever cost, legal and emotional, to get this DC to see a dying A.
That will stir up a lot of emotions in the DC related to the breakdown of the relationship 2.5 yrs ago, and give then a horrific visual memory, rather than the last visual memory of A being when they were well.
The dying person does not have to have every last wish granted, you know. If they are sad at not seeing the DC, well, sorry, but they will not have to live with that sadness for very long.
Trying to insist that the DC sees A could cause emotional damage that might take years of therapy to undo.

You're not able to answer the relevant questions like, what were the criminal charges? Why did B step away and how was this beneficial for child? If you're able to answer them, posters may be able to give you more specific information.

It should be nothing to do with B and what he wants. It should be about what’s right for the child. And he needs to be given the option. He’s 12 not 5. 12 year olds can understand much more than we give them credit for.

Do not send a letter from a solicitorask in a factual personal letter to the RP. Anything else is inappropriate/ awful.

Thanks Bertrand.

Everyone understands that the child can't be forced to see A. No one wants that. No one wants the child to feel obliged to either.

I don't know if A even really expects to see the child, although would like to. Some form of contact will probably be enough (if that is all the child is comfortable with) for A to be at peace.

The child should be put first here. And them seeing a dying GP at their age really is not a nice position to put them in - at all

They can Bertrand but they are also very keen to please and not upset people in my experience.

And not everyone dies a lovely peaceful death, many people in the last few weeks are angry and scared and don't act how they would probably want to be remembered.

For those saying “ have A record messages/write letters etc” OR “must let child say goodbye/have closure etc” I understand you saying that to help A.... BUT .. I’ve been there, my mum, my DDs grandmother died while estranged (estranged for good reasons).

At no point did we feel it appropriate to reestablish a relationship only to rip it away when she died. My DD had closure, it was already her norm, she retained the few semi decent memories she had of the woman and was not adversely affected by not having a personal re-union to say goodbye.

Honestly this strikes so close to home, I’d have been furious to have this sprung on me as you’re suggesting.

@BertrandRussell Not all 12 year olds. Me at 12? Certainly. And I did make a decision about seeing one of my GPs prior to his death from a brain tumour. I decided to not to see him. He had no clue who anyone was and it would have only upset me further. But - and this is crucial - I had already had a traumatic as fuck childhood at this point.

My eldest DC who is 12 now? Absolutely no way would I put this on her. She’s not sheltered by any means but I’ve made damn sure she doesn’t have to deal with adult feelings and adult decisions like I did, when she is just a child.

I am awaiting a call back from SS.

If as expected they can't help a letter will be sent on behalf of A. A cannot send that letter.

In the meantime because time is so short B is seeking legal advice and will provide lawyer with a copy of the letter.

That’s the bit you’re not factoring.

For A to be at peace, a child has to be put through the emotional torment grown adults struggle with.
It isn’t fair to even ask.

My own grandmother was dying last year and I had an 11 year old who absolutely loves her great grandma. No way would I have taken her to see her when she was dying. I really don't get who it would benefit even if they'd been in contact. This all just smacks of the dad trying to guilt trip the mum into giving access to b the dc who he's not bothered with for 4 years. I would move heaven and earth to see my dc so cannot understand anyone able to just walk away like that.

I don't know if A even really expects to see the child, although would like to. Some form of contact will probably be enough (if that is all the child is comfortable with) for A to be at peace

I really don't think it should be down to the child to bring peace to anyone. Any peace that A feels will be one that is decided by her, and her acceptance of her illness, her life etc. Final letters and recordings can also bring closure.

I feel you have been through a lot with your own family, and maybe the pain of losing someone so special to you is clouding your judgement a little op. You sound distressed, and anyone can understand why, but we must not allow this to also distress a perfectly innocent child.

Some proper support would be of far more benefit to all of you. I am sorry you are going through this, we too have experienced it, and it is awful. Try to allow the shock to wear off, simply write the letter to RP and take steam out of the situation. A surely does not lots of upset and stress around her when she must already be going through hell.

If A cannot write a letter what exactly will either parties get from meeting? Dc is unlikely to run over with open arms

Gosh, the situation sounds awful.

I would hope the RP would leave it up to the child to decide as they are old enough to have an opinion. However, given that you think A only has months left and possibly not even that, I would imagine the child may decline due to it being too traumatic to see someone they loved so poorly.

Not exactly the same situation, but my dad fell out with his mum when I was a child. All contact was stopped and we didn't see or hear from her in years. I found out about my step grandfather dying a year and a half after it happened as nobody on his side of the family thought to tell us. Then out of the blue a few years ago, she tried to come back into our lives as she had a cancer scare. My dad let her back in but I refused any contact with her. I didn't see the point in opening up a relationship again when I could see it had no future. I was right and it wasn't long before she cut all contact with our family again because my parents didn't buy her a big enough birthday card 😂

You really are sticking your nose into someone else’s business. You refuse to see that it’s not in the best interest of the child. How do you think a solicitor’s letter, SS or a threat of legal action is going to smooth this path you insist on creating? If I was the parent of this child, any correspondence would go straight in the shredder. I wonder what the real reason is behind your drive to get your own way?

For A to be at peace, a child has to be put through the emotional torment grown adults struggle with.
It isn’t fair to even ask.

^THIS.

*need lots of upset and stress

You really believe that social services or a judge would remove a child from its mother and deliver it to its absent parent to play happy families with a cancer patient? You are deluded. You care absolutely nothing about this child or the effect on him / her. (I have lost both parents to cancer).

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I was put in a similar situation and didn't allow my daughter to see her dying grandma.

My daughter hasn't seen her dad since she was 3 - his choice. His parents made zero effort to see their grandchild so they hadn't seen her either. I found out in the local pub that my exH mother was dying from lung cancer and had requested to see my daughter and that I am monster for stopping her. I knew nothing about it until that point, and my exH had not once been in touch to request a visit. My daughter was 9 at the time so I contacted her dad to understand the situation. He confirmed that yes his mother was dying, she had requested to see her granddaughter and that she didn't have long left.

I've never seen anyone with cancer but with exH saying she didn't have long left, I presumed she wouldn't look very well. After much careful consideration, and after speaking with my daughter, I decided not to let her visit her grandma. Grandma was a chain-smoker and my daughter was angry that this was causing her death. I wanted the memories of her gran to be good ones, albeit limited, not seeing her dying and suffering. My daughter is 11 now and we've been to lay flowers at her grave. I still believe I made the right decision.

The parent concerned needs to ask these questions to a family law specialist themselves, not you.
Sorry but it's true.