Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

I'm sorry, @Unhappytraveler, we've had our own revelation of unexpected and terminal cancer in the family today and it's horrendous.

I understand that you feel that the child should get to make the choice on whether or not to have contact... but you'll have to make a good argument as to why that decision should fall to the child. The court will be acting in the interests of the child; not A, and they may well consider that there is no strong benefit to the child by reestablishing contact; and that it would be better for A to film a video or write a letter, even assisted, for when the child wants to read it. If you want to argue that; you're going to need some good reasons that it's in the best interests of the child to reestablish contact now. Lack of contact with B, whomevers fault that was, could well affect that. It's been a long time.

Don't let this consume all of As final days. If it's not achievable; it'll be devastating. It may not be, potentially through no fault of As directly. It will just be exceptionally difficult to argue that this is the right thing for the child.

My parents died when I was 11. It's an impossible decision to ask a child whether or not they want to see someone who is dying. It's a hard ask for an adult, but social conventions may mean that adults do. For this child, they may well feel divided between their parents, as well as confused, and potentially rather scared. That's undeniable for children who do have existing contact with someone who is dying - but that's not the case here.

If nothing else, this thread has hopefully given you an idea of what you'll be "arguing" against.

It's a shame B and family did not fight as hard for access years ago as they are now fighting for the right for a 12 year old to make a decision. Probably because it would benefit B and the family more now than years ago.

It was to find out how we can ensure this info gets to RP and we get an actual response rather than no response.

This is the bit that betrays you. You want a response. You’re interested in what YOU (you and/or B and/or A) need or want.

All the other talk of whether a 11/12yo should/could decide for themselves is BS. You don’t know the child. How CAN you know is best for the child? There’s no rule or theory about these things. It depends on the child, who you don’t know.

It’s a time of shock and sadness for you. But I’m going to be blunt: whatever happens, A will pass. Whether that happens peacefully or not, it will happen. Honestly, going “in peace” isn’t even a thing. That’s for the benefit of the living. Everything about death (except pain) is for the living.

Leave the child out of it. If you have to spend the next 6 months listening to A’s sadness about not saying goodbye to the child, do it. Support and comfort them. That’s life. It’s also death.

Sorry you’re having to deal with a cruel death

That child does not need to be brought into this situation do they really? You are only going to cause
Upset to that child. Is this just a way for B to get back into child’s life as if it is I suggest they do it the proper way.

We had a very similar situation with DH's family who we had no contact with for years previously, to the point we were sent emotional, trying to guilt trip us letters to our house and workplace about how it was their "dying wish". Both DH and I refused any contact because it was only going to be upsetting to our DC (who they had never met) and would not have benefited them at all, and unfortunately the tone of the letters further cemented our feelings about being NC with the family.

Please consider the effect on the child, as well as the effect on the rp who is going to have this thrust on them after years of no contact.

Write a letter to the child's mother, explaining the grandmother's diagnosis and her wish to see her grandchild.

Since the grandchild is 12, and was previously close to her grandmother, it seems reasonable that she is given the opportunity to make contact, if she wishes to.

Even if the mother does not allow direct contact, she might be willing to send photos, write a letter, or allow the grandchild to write a letter. However, if the mother or grandchild choose not to engage, then you really shouldn't pursue this any further.

I'm another one guessing that there is a court order forbidding B from contact as that's the only way a school could withhold information from someone with PR. The context you are missing out here is everything. My opinion is that the nature of what's likely to have happened between B and RP in the past will make any contact with any family member very traumatic for the child and no court will be able to get past that. You have been very unpleasant and arrogant throughout this thread, but you aren't really the person to concern us all here are you. Unfortunately people lie in the beds they make, and I'm thinking B is the person who has broken all this and not seeing how s/he is continuing to break it further.

I just take it that you are absolutely certain that there is no restraining order/non molestation order that forbids contact between A or B and RP and /or DD?

I just know of a case where people on the internet were unwittingly dragged into helping a NRP find a family as a way to circumvent an absolute prohibition on contact. The NRP told a good sob storry (not mentioning that the RP/kids were living at a protected address becuse of the previous abuse.? I know the poor kids had to be moved again to a protected address in a different region for their own safety and that the some of the gullible internet Sherlocks that tracked them down in breach of the order were interviewed by the police - don't know if they were ever charged.

Yabvvvu there is no benefit to the child.

The parent stepped away but always wanted to establish contact sometime in the future. Bullshit!

Yabvvvu there is no benefit to the child.

The parent stepped away but always wanted to establish contact sometime in the future. Bullshit!

I don’t care if B is male, female or both. Their behaviour is despicable. Even now, they don’t have the time to try and make contact with anyone? How busy can they be to not grant their parent his/her wish? B seems to have an ability to sit back and do nothing. Poor, poor child - “hey kid, sorry I haven’t made the effort to contact you but gran/grandad is dying and wants to see you”. That’s the gist of it and it’s not good.

I'm also intrigued by the school/pr issue. I work in a child care setting and there's no way we can withhold information from or prevent collections by a parent with pr. Unless under very specific circumstances.

Recently I had to ask my own dcs school to remove their fathers contact information from their records (no contact, all info no longer correct) and they were very clear that they couldn't remove his name from the contacts/pick up list because he had pr.

I'm also intrigued by the school/pr issue. I work in a child care setting and there's no way we can withhold information from or prevent collections by a parent with pr. Unless under very specific circumstances

This with bells on.

There is NO court order barring contact. There never has been any such order. I know this first hand.

The school refused to give information. That is what happened. No reason other than resident parent's say so. Schools make mistakes as much as any other organisation and they're not legal experts so can and do get stuff wrong. That happened here.

B wasnt found guilty. Didnt go to prison. Alleged offence wasn't assault or any physical offence. Didnt involve RP in any way other than them knowing B had been charged.

A is able to manage a visit but cannot physically compose or send a letter. Most of Bs time right now is spent with helping A adjust to diagnosis and the immediate consequences; sorting finances, arranging future POA. Making sure their will and bequests are in order. Writing for A as A cannot write Plus all household tasks. I'm not able to assist with that but I can make a few calls etc which is what I've done. B is taking the next steps now, which was always the intent. I will continue to help the family however I can.

This is eerily similar to something going on local to me where B was accused of child sexual assault. The RP parent dropped all contact with B and all the family who (disgustingly) stood by him.

I hope they can communicate on this
Reading the child’s age I do actually think they have a right to decide
Sorry that the thread turned shit
It always does

That would explain a lot about this thread @FrivolousPancake

Good point.

Op why have you tried to argue that we all thought that B was male and tell us that B is female when you’ve already said this? ‘ Just because I've not met the RP doesnt mean I don't know her views or what she's said‘.

Why make a thread and just continuously lie?

Oh FFS.

This is not the situation local to Pancake and that was not the offence with which B was charged.

Sorry you're getting such a bad time here. I hope A gets to see her grandchild one last time and grandchild gets the opportunity to say goodbye.

It was a few weeks before my 6th birthday when my grandmother died. I knew she was ill but didn't understand it was a terminal illness. It had been my experience people always got better when they were poorly. I remember my mum told me after school that grandma had died. She came to meet me on her bike and she never normally did that. I remember being so sad but whatever my mum told me that day, I understood.

Grandma's body was laid out in the front parlor and I was taken to see her body to 'say goodbye' one last time. Everyone was there. It was the 1950's in England and we weren't sheltered from death as appears the case now.

The comments here are bizarre. People are projecting their own issues onto the subject.

If I was the rp id ignore you.

When people go no contact, they do so in the full knowledge that those they are cutting contact with will eventually die. They make their choice knowing this. While this diagnosis is devastating for a, it will trouble the rp little.

I've not lied.

The creative writing has come from other posters interpretations of what I've said. Like the idea we would ambush the child or have them at As deathbed. All complete nonsense which I've not said. And even when others have helpfully pointed out this nonsense, no one has backed down. No, the exaggeration has continued.

I was put in pretty much this situation at 12. I very much felt that I had to put on this show of ‘so happy to see you’ for the benefit of the ill GP balanced with ‘ I’m So sad they’re dying’ for benefit of their family along with ‘oh I don’t really care’ for the benefit of my family, as well as manage my actual real feelings. All a bit messed up and given the choice I would not have done it.

I think you are thriving off the drama of this situation OP. And perhaps wanting to be the person at the centre of a tearful reunion.

I hear zero concern for the child involved.

I don’t even actually hear much grief for the dying grandparent.

Check your motives, OP, check you motives.