Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

If B is a female, it doesn’t matter, they’re still a disgraceful parent.

I used male because it’s the more common equation. It doesn’t matter what the sex is. They’re still useless and should be able to do this themselves.

If A & B are anything like you OP, I can understand why the RP has no contact with them.

A letter is being passed and contact made as I have said. A is unable to send a letter personally. B has been advised not to.

Sadly I agree with the PP who said that this risks causing slot of upset for the child
No grandparent , then dying grandparent then dead grandparent . It’s a very heavy load for the child really
And your poor friend should maybe think of that
Could they leave the child a
Legacy and a lovely better
It’s a shit situation all around

disinterested other parties

Interesting you have disinterested other parties close enough to the RP to keep you up to date on the RP' s perspective....

But no-one willing to advocate on A's behalf. Why is that.

I think what most of you have missed is there are no winners here.

If nothing is done, no attempt made. A dies. Lets say at 16 or 18, or whenever, child decides they want to contact B. I know of similar situations indeed where theres been no contact since infancy. Child asks to see grandparents...sorry we didn't tell you. How would the child feel? Robbed of a choice.

Alternatively if contact occurs now...child might be devastated at As imminent loss and be angry at B for having lost the past 2.5 years. And might therefore still chose not to see A. Or to see A but no further contact with B.

Either way it is horribly sad for the child, indeed all of us. Untimely death always is.

This is yet another of those threads where posters simply make things up. It's a bizarre feature of this place.

A12 year old is old enough to be given the information about his grandparent, and the choice whether or not to see her.
That choice, of course, should be made without any undue influence from the adults involved.

Of course, if, by that point grandmother is looking extremely ill, he should be warned about that. And if she's absolutely not her any more, then he should be advised not to go. But if she's well enough to appear reasonably close to her old self, it shouldn't be too traumatic.

I find it bizarre, again, that some people have decided that he's being asked to sit at her bedside while she dies. They should be writing fiction rather than posting on mumsnet

If A is so out of it/Ill that they cannot even compose a letter, won’t it be very upsetting for a child to see them?

Those disinterested parties were acting in a professional capacity. The fact they were disinterested shpuldmake it clear they were not friends or family...

Actually you are wrong. The winner is A. They get to play the doting grandma and die without having to deal with any fall out.

Whatever way you look at it the child suffers whether they do make contact or not.

Sick

The kid is having to cope with the fact that their dead beat Dad has decided that achieving contact with them is more trouble than it's worth, finding out that your Grandparent that you haven't seen since you were small has died will be small change in comparison.

And you. You get to say you fought the good fight for A before her death. Ditto B

None of you will be the one dealing with the fallout for the child

So B has been advised not to contact the resident parent. B has also been told by the school that they are not allowed to pass any information on. This is sounding like there is a court order already denying B having contact of any sort, Schools do not refuse details on the say so of the resident parent but only a court order. They couldnt even refuse to allow B to pick up the child without a court order refusing it. This doesn't add up to me.

"Child asks to see grandparents...sorry we didn't tell you. How would the child feel? Robbed of a choice".

I think child should be told when A dies, that way noone is hiding information. Child hasnt seen A for years and will probably not remember them. Even if child says they were "robbed of a choice", it's a bit of "hard luck, a choice was made in your best interest as you are a child.". I doubt child will be scarred for life in this situation.

Oh ffs. 🙄

Child lives their life aware that parent B and grandparent are not a part of it. Child’s life is NORMAL. Later finds out that person he vaguely remembers died. Oh dear, well that’s life. Child continues life as NORMAL. Unaffected by it all.

Child lives their life aware that B and Gp are not part of it. Suddenly gets told they now want contact because want him to grant wish of dying Gp. It’s deathbed wish, last chance, not much time. Guilt, manipulative pressure, trauma, more guilt, anger, grief...... possibly affects their relationship with one or both parents. But A is happy .. so yay 🎉🙄🤢

Child lives their life aware A and B not in it.. etc.

Never has anything to do with that side of family because B thinks making effort is detrimental or inconvenient. Whatevs. Child’s life continues as normal.

Only a narcissist would think their passing would devastate a person they have not had a relationship with for years.

But give it a bit OP will be back to prove us wrong.

You go for it OP, don’t let a bit of unanimous advice set you straight.

The reality is if one parent and side of the family have no contact for years with a child, well then sadly people may die and the child may not know about it.

None of this is the child's fault and their interest should be paramount.

Christ, I’m slow. 🥴 This criminal investigation - you say the offence didn’t relate to the child. Did the offence relate to the RP?

I think you are asking how you can get information over to a child who may be known to social care.
If this is correct, contact the local social care, give the name and dob of the child and ask to speak to the social worker in charge of their case.
You tell them the information about the eol patient and why you think it would be important that the child is informed/invited to visit.
The social worker would make the decision about whether this is/isnt appropriate as they would have part responsibility over decisions.

What I think is important is that the information doesn't go directly from you to child, it must be a decision made by the parent responsible/social worker. That's how you protect the child's interest in my opinion, you give the decision to inform to the care giver etc.

Why can't people read ??
OP. As ever people are making moral judgments on situations where they don't know the facts. !

A 11/12 yr old should be able to make a choice about a GP they had a long relationship with.

To answer your question. Get B to download a C100 from HMCTs and apply for contact. It costs £215 and he will have to suggest mediation which the RP will almost certainly refuse and the certificate to go straight to court can be issued..

You can get it done in 6 weeks.. maybe faster if B calls the court and explains circs. If B has low income or in receipt of benefits he needs to complete 'help with fees' form to get reductions//exemption. Good luck !

Not sure why people don't think it could be in the best interests of the child. I was once in a similar position at age 10, and sadly my grandparent died before contact could be arranged. I still feel sad about it now. I realise that every situation is unique but it is possible that this contact could be in the child's best interests.

*To answer your question. Get B to download a C100 from HMCTs and apply for contact. It costs £215 and he will have to suggest mediation which the RP will almost certainly refuse and the certificate to go straight to court can be issued..

You can get it done in 6 weeks.. maybe faster if B calls the court and explains circs. If B has low income or in receipt of benefits he needs to complete 'help with fees' form to get reductions//exemption. Good luck !*

Why hasn't B done this previously?

Thehouseintheforest..... my understanding is that grandparents dont have legal rights to see grandchildren so how is it going to work for b getting access? Are you suggesting b gets access then takes the child to see A? With or without their choosing?
What about the massive impact this will have on the child? Are you ignoring the fact that op has stated this all started with b having a criminal investigation and that op hasnt said what this was or what the outcome was? What if b is in prison?

Woah, you've come in for a lot of criticism on here, OP! Unfairly (and rather unkindly) IMO. For what it's worth, I agree with your course of action. A 12 year old should be allowed to make their own mind up about things like this.

I hope A gets to see their grandchild before they die. Sending love to you all.

Not sure why people don't think it could be in the best interests of the child

I think people have amply explained why it may not. Which part don’t you understand?

I’m sorry that you wanted to see your grandparent and they died before contact was arranged. However, there’s no guarantee that had you met that person (possibly in a sick and distressed state) that you wouldn’t have been upset and regretted it.

I’m glad OP says a letter has been sent to the RP. I hope they take a serious step back now.